Autopilots

[n2099x]

I am making the final decisions on avionics and autopilot. The question is S-TEC 30 or 55X. If you own a 55X would you buy another one or something different? How well does the 55X really perform, and do you use most of its capabilities?

Glen

[Todd Peterson]

I don't know about anyone else but I seldom use all the features of the 55X autopilot. The two big things that stand out for me with this autopilot is the vertical speed preselect and the ability to shoot a fully coupled ILS approach.

I do use the vertical speed preselect quite a bit but when I'm flying an airplane without this function I don't miss it. I also think that the vertical speed preselect works best when you have the auto trim. With the auto trim you can dial in the rate of climb or descent and forget about it, then when you get to the altitude you want punch the altitude button and everything is done for you. Without the auto trim you will be doing a lot of trimming to get these functions done.

To this day I have never used the autopilot to shoot an ILS approach for me. They do a good job but I like the feel of doing it myself and usually a hand flown approach is a better one from an accuracy standpoint.

When you consider the Stec 30 is about $10,000 and the 55X (with the auto trim) is about $18,000 there's quite a difference. I guess you just have to figure out how much you are really going to use the extra features of the 55X and then see if it's worth the extra money. Either way they are both a great autopilot.

[kwmoore]

In 500 hr flying the 260se I can't remember a single instance where I wished I had the enhanced capability of the 55X over the 30+GPSS. Of course, I don't fly much hardcore IFR. If one is planning a lot of IFR trips with ILS-to-almost-mins at the end of a long fatiguing flight--east coast or midwest pilots who use their planes for business for example--I can see where the 55X might be worthwhile. For me, I'm happy to have kept the $8000 difference in my wallet or in reserve to spend on things like the GTX330.

One thing I might consider doing differently is installing electric trim with a trim switch on the yoke.

[n2099x]

Thanks for the replies. I'm trying to justify in my mind a 55X. I'm also looking at a WX500 storm scope, just in case I want to go to Kansas. Does anyone have a WX500? How well do they work? Please help me out I have to start ordering things next week. Installation is scheduled to start the following week.

Thanks, Glen

[Pete of N978PB]

Glen,

As a midwestern guy whose flying is mainly east of the Rockies, much of it from the Great Lakes and across the Alleghenies to the Southeast and Florida, the Stormscope is an absolute necessity. It's worth every penny from late March through November.

My version is the 950 standalone because of the unavailabilty of a particular piece of equipment allowing its use with the Garmin 530 at the time of my installation.

I also have the S-Tec 30, and debated about the 55X for a day or two, but decided the 55X's incremental capability simply wasn't worth the money. It's no big deal to level an aircraft at an assigned/desired altitude, and with a good understanding of power settings and their resultant descent rates, an approach can be quite readily managed without Otto 55X on board to do the job.

With the GPSS installed (a great value, by the way) and interfaced with the S-Tec 30, Otto's navigation from shortly after takeoff through an approach is simply superb.

I agree with Kevin that those incremental dollars can be used for other needs. The GTX 330 and GDL 49 come to mind, and the two taken together will roughly equal the $8,000 cost differential as between the S-Tec 55X and the 30.

As of 2 days ago, both are now installed in 978PB so I don't yet have any meaningful experience with them. But having the ability to know where other traffic is in higher density areas is quite comforting.

Plus, the ability to see the extent of rain via the GDL 49 is a safety edge that serves to complement the Stormscope very nicely. And perhaps more important, the ability to see both textual and graphic METARS on a near current basis adds immeasurably to the safety factor, too.

So, for the $8,000 involved, it is my view that those bucks are much better spent with things like the 330 and 49, rather than a couple of Gee Whizzes for a stepped up Otto.

My thoughts, anyway.

Good luck with your installation.

Pete

[C-GOEM]

Glen,

I have the S-Tec 60-2 with altitude pre-select and GPSS in C-GOEM. It works very well and frees up some space in the radio stack. Also, the pitch and roll computers are in the tailcone shifting some weight aft. I also use the WX500 and display it on the MX20. (We do not have uploadable radar coverage in my part of the world!) I flew a plane with it displayed on a 430 but found the screen too small and cluttered. Again, the WX500 shifts some weight to the rear.

If your plane is the same as mine, you will notice that the control column lines up with a point a couple of inches right of your navel. When laying out the instrument panel, I offset the HSI and Flight Director left of the column in order to line up between my eyes and the point where the plane will cross the horizon and then completed a 'standard six' configuration. This also works out well with the structure behind the panel. I find it easy to fly and great when transitioning to other aircraft. The regular Cessna 182 layout seems somewhat awkward and non-standard to me.

When designing your panel, you may want to try and have the analog fuel flow, engine monitor and digital fuel flow all side by side. It really simplifies engine management especially when making fine adjustment for operating LOP. There is a photo of C-GOEM's panel in the photo section. It may be helpful.

Good luck with your new panel!

Rod

[n2099x]

Thanks for the info Pete. I'm going with the new UPS stack, CNX80 Quantum Leap, MX20 with Chart View, SL30 Nav Com with Glide Slope, SL70 maybe the Remote Transponder, I already have a GX55 that I'll use for a back up GPS, WX500 storm scope (thanks Pete), and a S-Tec or King HSI. Now I have to decide on an auto pilot I'm leaning towards the 55X with auto trim. Just because I've never had any auto pilot and after a long day it would sure be cool to let otto do more of the work.

Thanks Rod, I will print out a picture of your panel for my avionics guy. It also reminded me that I want to have a JPI 450 installed. I extended by baggage compartment by almost two bulkheads to add some weight to the tail. You probably need more weight than I do because of all those ponies up front.

More comments would be great, please.

Thanks, Glen

[witrakw]

being a relative rookie at flying, the STEC 30 appeals to my "keep it simple". It is very intuitive and,hey, I like the different colored blinking lites. The turn coordinator seems a bit sensitive, though, and slow to correct to neutral compared to what I was used to before.

for a thousand bucks, GPSS is a no brainer.

wx500 works and displays well with the MX20. Purportedly, there is no sensitivity or functional difference between the stand alone stormscope vs the wx500. You can easily scroll up or down to any range your want and it easily goes from cell to strike mode. To me, one less instrument cluster to look at is a plus; the only residual of the wx500 on the dashboard is the wx500 circuit breaker. the gns430 display is way too small and would be cumbersome to use(switching back and forth between gns430 screens) without a "stand alone" separate lightning display on a MFD

the MX20 is a great display. I keep waiting for a weather uplink source.

moving the engine cluster way rightward to keep the electronic/analog engine monitors closer to the central stack has worked well(pic is on the website). Bevan wasn't too excited about doing it, though, because an oil line had to be moved.

have fun!

[n2099x]

Thanks for the response, they are currently working on a weather uplink for the MX20. They tell me it will be an easy upgrade. Time will tell.

Glen

[n2099x]

Rod: What is the make and model of your flight director and HSI? Would you have both of them installed if you did it again? Any chance would you have a cad drawing of your panel?

Glen

[C-GOEM]

Glen,

I have the S-TEC 14 V, single cue flight director. It works very well and has a manual adjustment for the horizon and a remote electronic parallax adjustment for the steering bar (mounted below the GPSS switch). I enjoy it but it is probably over-kill in a Skylane. The HSI is a 14 V King KI-525A with the 14 V King DG-102A remote gyro. It is a decent, reliable unit and there are lots of them out there if you ever need a loaner. I had a slaved NSD-360 in the Aerostar and perferred it's presentation over the KI-525A. However, the King unit integrates well with almost all other avionics and is easy to remove for service as it is front mounted. I think I'm too old and lazy to fly IFR without an HSI. In my view it is essential. It also frees up some panel space so you can install an RMI with ADF on one needle and GPS/VOR on the other. Great for flying in under-developed countries or during those rare times when the GPS doesn't work.

You may find that aligning your MX20 to match a point vertically midway between the HSI and FD will make for a comfortable scan. I tend to watch the MFD much more than the small screen on the GPS.

Good luck.

Rod

[n2099x]

Thanks Rod, Any chance you have a cad drawing of your right and left panels?

Glen

[Mike Sullivan]

Glen,

I'm posting from Pensacola, Fl. Flew here Sunday in 12 hours flight time from El Centro with two stops, El Paso and Houston. Used my S-tec 30 for much of the trip and found that it really took the load off. It even allowed me to rest my eyes for awhile, while my passenger watched for traffic.

My TIS link to my Garmin 530 worked fantastically in all of the busy airspace. When departing Houston, I asked for vectors out of the airspace since I wasn't familiar with the area, and discoved they were giving the exact same vectors to another plane directly beneath me (2000 feet). I could see him on my screen in my exact position for 30 miles. Controllers really do have your life in their hands.

Also, just before I left CA, I finally subscribed to Nexrad Services (EchoFlight) and played with the Nexrad satellite link the entire trip. It displays in my 530. Fortunally, or maybe unfortunally, the weather was clear the entire way, so I really wasn't able to determine if it works as they claim. I kept queerying up the satellite but the screen always stayed clear.

I'll be flying home Friday but I think I'll make a two day trip out of it going home. Twelve hours of flying, plus stops, is just too much for one day.

The fishing has been great and I've been thinking about the Cayman Carravan.

Mike :) :) :)

[Pete of N978PB]

Mike,

I've just had the GDL 49 installed (also the GTX 330) but haven't had the chance to put it through its paces yet.

If there should be any weather paterns on your trip home, your impressions of its performance would be most helpful.

Pete

[C-GOEM]

Glen,

If you send me your E-Mail adddress (through Kevin Moore if necessary) I will send you the CAD files for the left and right panels.

Rod

[Mike Sullivan]

Pete,

I'm leaving Friday so I'll keep you posted. I'm dying to see some weather on that screen. I'm going to take two days going home. Twelve hours of flying in one day was just too much.

Mike

[kwmoore]

Rod

I forwarded your e-mail address to Glen's e-mail address yesterday.

[n2099x]

Thanks Kevin

Rod: Thanks for letting me have a copy of your drawings. I look forward to getting them. They should save me a bunch of time.
I'm taking 99X to the avionics shop within the next few days. They don't have time to get everything in before I want it back for the Cayman Caravan. But I'll have the UPS deluxe IFR stack with the new CNX80 and chart view. I also will have the S-Tec HSI but will wait till winter for the rest. That will give me to make the pannels and decide which auto pilot I want.

Thanks again, Glen