kwmoore
03-12-2004, 02:16 PM
We have a number of new members and others curious about these aircraft logging on to this site. Accordingly I have made a brief "index" of discussion threads that in my opinion can provide a rapid but thorough introduction for those just learning about the Peterson modifications of the Cessna 182. I will update this on a regular basis as particularly relevant and "pithy" threads are posted.
For a brief history of the 260se/stol, 230se/stol, and their ancestor the Wren, visit the Peterson's Performance Plus (http://www.katmai-260se.com) website, including the downloads page (http://www.katmai-260se.com/downloads.html). 182N, P & Q are eligible for Peterson conversions; a pdf summarizing the 182 model history is available here. (http://www.seaplaneswest.com/documents/182hist.pdf)
For a discussion among owners of why they chose to buy and continue to like the plane, view this thread (http://www.260sepilots.org/forums/showthread.php?threadid=16). One owner wrote an article in Cessna Flyer magazine on this subject, which is available on the Peterson's Performance Plus downloads page (http://www.katmai-260se.com/downloads.html). You can view many photographs of owners and their planes, as well as interesting places they have flown, in the photo gallery (http://www.260sepilots.org/gallery/) section of this website.
For detailed discussions of performance and flight characteristics, click here (http://www.260sepilots.org/forums/showthread.php?threadid=61) and here. (http://www.260sepilots.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=10) There is also an article by Budd Davisson from the December 2001 issue of Plane and Pilot (http://www.katmai-260se.com/downloads.html) that captures the 260se/stol's unique characteristics very well. The AvionicsWest website has an article about Tom Rogers' experience test flying a 260SE (http://www.avionicswest.com/panels/cessna182/05252001.htm#2001) in which his shop had installed an avionics package. Cruise speeds obtained by 260se owners have been discussed here (http://www.260sepilots.org/forums/showthread.php?t=233). Due to low stall speed and consequent slow speed maneuverability the Peterson modified 182's can make significantly tighter turns than the stock Skylane as discussed here (http://www.260sepilots.org/forums/showthread.php?t=557). A brief discussion of obstacle clearance after takeoff is found here. (http://www.260sepilots.org/forums/showthread.php?t=515)
You can also read a discussion of ownership costs here (http://www.260sepilots.org/forums/showthread.php?threadid=187) and here. (http://www.260sepilots.org/forums/showthread.php?p=1959#post1959) Not surprisingly, the 260se/stol costs about as much to own and fly as a 182. The main differences are fuel--a 260se run lean-of-peak (click here (http://www.260sepilots.org/forums/showthread.php?threadid=162) and here (http://www.260sepilots.org/forums/showthread.php?t=444)) uses 20-30% LESS fuel than a 182 with no sacrifice in cruise speed compared to the O-470-powered unmodified airplane--and hull insurance premium, which is proportional to the plane's value. An additional advantage to the 260se is that it doesn't depreciate as much as newly manufactured aircraft that are being produced in volume.
There is also a thread about the 230se/stol (http://www.260sepilots.org/forums/showthread.php?threadid=50&highlight=230se), an otherwise stock Cessna 182 with the high-lift canard. A flight review of the 230se can be downloaded here (http://www.katmai-260se.com/downloads.html).
The "260sx/stol," a 260se/stol with wingtip extensions (http://www.260sepilots.org/forums/showthread.php?threadid=176) that approaches the Wren's remarkable low speed and short field performance has been described. The wingtip extensions have been incorporated into a new model, the "Katmai," (http://www.260sepilots.org/forums/showthread.php?t=350) which combines the 260se/stol bushmaster's rugged landing gear with oversize tires and a variety of add-on options to suit back-country fliers. The Katmai's stall speed is a remarkably low 31 kt--landing this plane into any headwind will almost be like planting a helicopter on a spot! Click here (http://www.260sepilots.org/forums/showthread.php?t=440) for a Katmai pirep posted by a 260se owner, and here (http://www.260sepilots.org/forums/showthread.php?t=598) for a comparison by a pilot experienced in both the stock 260se and the Katmai.
You can download a discussion of the rationale behind the choice of the IO-470 engine for the 260se here (http://www.katmai-260se.com/downloads.html). Remarkable efficiency can be achieved with the 260se/stol's IO-470 engine via lean of peak operation (click here (http://www.260sepilots.org/forums/showthread.php?threadid=162) and here (http://www.260sepilots.org/forums/showthread.php?t=444)). Nonetheless for those pilots to whom "more power" is an overriding consideration, the canard and aerodynamic cleanup can be installed on IO-520 or IO-550-equipped (http://www.260sepilots.org/forums/showthread.php?t=304) 182 airframes. Regarding efficiency, the IO-550 will burn 18-20 gph at 75%, best power, rich-of-peak (ROP) settings. Running lean of peak (LOP), expect more like 13-15 gph, with slightly lower speeds. LOP, the IO-550 will burn about the same amount of fuel as the IO-470 running ROP. At LOP settings, the IO-470 fuel flow should be 11-13 gph depending on altitude. Some educated speculation on "300se"/Katmai performance with an IO-550 can be found here; (http://www.260sepilots.org/forums/showthread.php?t=451) you can read to what extent this speculation correlated with the real-world performance of the "King Katmai" here (http://www.260sepilots.org/forums/showthread.php?t=454) and here (http://www.260sepilots.org/forums/showthread.php?t=560).
This plane can be customized to fit a range of cost and performance objectives. Among the choices are:
230 hp O-470 / 260 hp IO-470 / 300 hp IO-550
Speed kit (http://knots2u.com/CessnaPrice.htm)
Extended wing (http://www.wingxstol.com)
Standard, heavy-duty, or tundra landing gear
Standard, extended, or "really extended" (http://www.selkirk-aviation.com/extend_bag.html) baggage area
BRS airframe parachute (http://brsparachutes.com/default.aspx)
New interior
New paint
Abrasion boots
Stainless steel landing gear strut leading edges
Avionics to suit your needs/wants
For those who want a less expensive entry point than a fully tricked out 260SE/300SE/Katmai, there's another way to "go Peterson:" start with a really nice airframe, with decent interior and presentable paint, a mid-time engine and perhaps even a GNS430 in the panel. Then add just the canard (~$25K) and you have a 230se/stol with all of the slow-speed capability. If you want, add a speed kit (~$5-6K) and even the extended wing (~$9-10K) that gives you an extra 4-5 kt cushion on the low end. For perhaps $140-165K you'll have a very capable airplane that cruises 140-145 KTAS @75% ROP and stalls at 31 kt. After flying it a while you can decide whether it's "for you" or not. If not, you can sell it at virtually no loss. If you like it, you can spring for the 260 hp or 300 hp engine, paint, interior, and perhaps some extra avionics.
Used ones are difficult to calibrate. Historically there are generally very few--0,1, maybe 2--on the market at any given time. Recently in the bad economy the number has been larger, perhaps four? Thus it's impossible to establish a benchmark on used 260se values--each plane is different and there are few sales--and each sale is pretty much just an agreed-upon-transaction-between-consenting-adults.
For some new owners' experiences with delivery and first few hours flying their 260se's, click here (http://www.260sepilots.org/forums/showthread.php?threadid=102) and here (http://www.260sepilots.org/forums/showthread.php?threadid=34). One owner has provided a narrative (http://www.260sepilots.org/forums/showthread.php?t=287) describing the construction of his Millenium Edition Katmai 260se/stol during 2005-2006, the first to be equipped with a BRS. A similar thread (http://www.260sepilots.org/forums/showthread.php?t=431) has been started by another owner in early 2007.
There is an annual fly-in (http://www.260sepilots.org/forums/showthread.php?t=565) for owners of these aircraft. Fly-ins have been held in McCall Idaho and Sedona Arizona.
This forum started out on Yahoo! Groups. I have transferred a select number of posts that I feel are informative and entertaining from that forum to this one. (http://www.260sepilots.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=10)
Other suggestions for linked threads are welcome!
For a brief history of the 260se/stol, 230se/stol, and their ancestor the Wren, visit the Peterson's Performance Plus (http://www.katmai-260se.com) website, including the downloads page (http://www.katmai-260se.com/downloads.html). 182N, P & Q are eligible for Peterson conversions; a pdf summarizing the 182 model history is available here. (http://www.seaplaneswest.com/documents/182hist.pdf)
For a discussion among owners of why they chose to buy and continue to like the plane, view this thread (http://www.260sepilots.org/forums/showthread.php?threadid=16). One owner wrote an article in Cessna Flyer magazine on this subject, which is available on the Peterson's Performance Plus downloads page (http://www.katmai-260se.com/downloads.html). You can view many photographs of owners and their planes, as well as interesting places they have flown, in the photo gallery (http://www.260sepilots.org/gallery/) section of this website.
For detailed discussions of performance and flight characteristics, click here (http://www.260sepilots.org/forums/showthread.php?threadid=61) and here. (http://www.260sepilots.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=10) There is also an article by Budd Davisson from the December 2001 issue of Plane and Pilot (http://www.katmai-260se.com/downloads.html) that captures the 260se/stol's unique characteristics very well. The AvionicsWest website has an article about Tom Rogers' experience test flying a 260SE (http://www.avionicswest.com/panels/cessna182/05252001.htm#2001) in which his shop had installed an avionics package. Cruise speeds obtained by 260se owners have been discussed here (http://www.260sepilots.org/forums/showthread.php?t=233). Due to low stall speed and consequent slow speed maneuverability the Peterson modified 182's can make significantly tighter turns than the stock Skylane as discussed here (http://www.260sepilots.org/forums/showthread.php?t=557). A brief discussion of obstacle clearance after takeoff is found here. (http://www.260sepilots.org/forums/showthread.php?t=515)
You can also read a discussion of ownership costs here (http://www.260sepilots.org/forums/showthread.php?threadid=187) and here. (http://www.260sepilots.org/forums/showthread.php?p=1959#post1959) Not surprisingly, the 260se/stol costs about as much to own and fly as a 182. The main differences are fuel--a 260se run lean-of-peak (click here (http://www.260sepilots.org/forums/showthread.php?threadid=162) and here (http://www.260sepilots.org/forums/showthread.php?t=444)) uses 20-30% LESS fuel than a 182 with no sacrifice in cruise speed compared to the O-470-powered unmodified airplane--and hull insurance premium, which is proportional to the plane's value. An additional advantage to the 260se is that it doesn't depreciate as much as newly manufactured aircraft that are being produced in volume.
There is also a thread about the 230se/stol (http://www.260sepilots.org/forums/showthread.php?threadid=50&highlight=230se), an otherwise stock Cessna 182 with the high-lift canard. A flight review of the 230se can be downloaded here (http://www.katmai-260se.com/downloads.html).
The "260sx/stol," a 260se/stol with wingtip extensions (http://www.260sepilots.org/forums/showthread.php?threadid=176) that approaches the Wren's remarkable low speed and short field performance has been described. The wingtip extensions have been incorporated into a new model, the "Katmai," (http://www.260sepilots.org/forums/showthread.php?t=350) which combines the 260se/stol bushmaster's rugged landing gear with oversize tires and a variety of add-on options to suit back-country fliers. The Katmai's stall speed is a remarkably low 31 kt--landing this plane into any headwind will almost be like planting a helicopter on a spot! Click here (http://www.260sepilots.org/forums/showthread.php?t=440) for a Katmai pirep posted by a 260se owner, and here (http://www.260sepilots.org/forums/showthread.php?t=598) for a comparison by a pilot experienced in both the stock 260se and the Katmai.
You can download a discussion of the rationale behind the choice of the IO-470 engine for the 260se here (http://www.katmai-260se.com/downloads.html). Remarkable efficiency can be achieved with the 260se/stol's IO-470 engine via lean of peak operation (click here (http://www.260sepilots.org/forums/showthread.php?threadid=162) and here (http://www.260sepilots.org/forums/showthread.php?t=444)). Nonetheless for those pilots to whom "more power" is an overriding consideration, the canard and aerodynamic cleanup can be installed on IO-520 or IO-550-equipped (http://www.260sepilots.org/forums/showthread.php?t=304) 182 airframes. Regarding efficiency, the IO-550 will burn 18-20 gph at 75%, best power, rich-of-peak (ROP) settings. Running lean of peak (LOP), expect more like 13-15 gph, with slightly lower speeds. LOP, the IO-550 will burn about the same amount of fuel as the IO-470 running ROP. At LOP settings, the IO-470 fuel flow should be 11-13 gph depending on altitude. Some educated speculation on "300se"/Katmai performance with an IO-550 can be found here; (http://www.260sepilots.org/forums/showthread.php?t=451) you can read to what extent this speculation correlated with the real-world performance of the "King Katmai" here (http://www.260sepilots.org/forums/showthread.php?t=454) and here (http://www.260sepilots.org/forums/showthread.php?t=560).
This plane can be customized to fit a range of cost and performance objectives. Among the choices are:
230 hp O-470 / 260 hp IO-470 / 300 hp IO-550
Speed kit (http://knots2u.com/CessnaPrice.htm)
Extended wing (http://www.wingxstol.com)
Standard, heavy-duty, or tundra landing gear
Standard, extended, or "really extended" (http://www.selkirk-aviation.com/extend_bag.html) baggage area
BRS airframe parachute (http://brsparachutes.com/default.aspx)
New interior
New paint
Abrasion boots
Stainless steel landing gear strut leading edges
Avionics to suit your needs/wants
For those who want a less expensive entry point than a fully tricked out 260SE/300SE/Katmai, there's another way to "go Peterson:" start with a really nice airframe, with decent interior and presentable paint, a mid-time engine and perhaps even a GNS430 in the panel. Then add just the canard (~$25K) and you have a 230se/stol with all of the slow-speed capability. If you want, add a speed kit (~$5-6K) and even the extended wing (~$9-10K) that gives you an extra 4-5 kt cushion on the low end. For perhaps $140-165K you'll have a very capable airplane that cruises 140-145 KTAS @75% ROP and stalls at 31 kt. After flying it a while you can decide whether it's "for you" or not. If not, you can sell it at virtually no loss. If you like it, you can spring for the 260 hp or 300 hp engine, paint, interior, and perhaps some extra avionics.
Used ones are difficult to calibrate. Historically there are generally very few--0,1, maybe 2--on the market at any given time. Recently in the bad economy the number has been larger, perhaps four? Thus it's impossible to establish a benchmark on used 260se values--each plane is different and there are few sales--and each sale is pretty much just an agreed-upon-transaction-between-consenting-adults.
For some new owners' experiences with delivery and first few hours flying their 260se's, click here (http://www.260sepilots.org/forums/showthread.php?threadid=102) and here (http://www.260sepilots.org/forums/showthread.php?threadid=34). One owner has provided a narrative (http://www.260sepilots.org/forums/showthread.php?t=287) describing the construction of his Millenium Edition Katmai 260se/stol during 2005-2006, the first to be equipped with a BRS. A similar thread (http://www.260sepilots.org/forums/showthread.php?t=431) has been started by another owner in early 2007.
There is an annual fly-in (http://www.260sepilots.org/forums/showthread.php?t=565) for owners of these aircraft. Fly-ins have been held in McCall Idaho and Sedona Arizona.
This forum started out on Yahoo! Groups. I have transferred a select number of posts that I feel are informative and entertaining from that forum to this one. (http://www.260sepilots.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=10)
Other suggestions for linked threads are welcome!