N812KT pickup

[kwmoore]

The last few weeks of waiting seemed very long, but N812KT was worth every minute. I airlined into ICT last Tuesday just ahead of a thunderstorm which we then experienced in the car on the way to EQA. Being a spoiled California boy, I had forgotten what a downpour they can produce: no ceiling, visibility about 150 feet, windshield wipers woefully inadequate even on "high," and a cacophony on the roof. Thankfully it abated before we reached El Dorado.

Todd, Jo, and Chris had the plane all ready and it gleamed in the hangar. No flying Tuesday, but I did get to ooh and ahh and lay on hands. Thanks to Louise "Squeege" and the Petersons for sending appetizer photos in advance.

PPP hosted the Kansas Pilots' Association that evening for a barbecue and a surprising number showed up--by car--despite a late afternoon/evening steady, heavy rain. Chris & I took turns grilling burgers and brots in the hangar across the taxiway, keeping a nice 1977 182 company. I suspect it is destined for a Millenium conversion with new interior, as its current upholstery--like my shirt--will henceforth forever exude the commemorative aroma of grilled meat. Jo periodically dashed across the taxiway to pick up and deliver "done" fare to the gathering. During these runs she donned a large black parka with a voluminous hood that substantially hid her face from view, thus earning the name "Darth Burger."

Wednesday offered occasional showers with gradual improvement, but Todd and I did get out for a short flight near the airport. Later that afternoon a possible customer and his family stopped by to chat wth Todd, and I practiced pattern work. Fortunately I did not embarrass myself in view of the visitors.

Thursday was beautiful! After Todd & Chris did some tweaks to the rpm and a few other things, I headed over to Bevan to "settle up" and retrieve various manuals, 337s, the 430's IFR FMS, and the plane's POH (!), then returned. While there I saw 8367E with the new panel Richard installed: it looks great.

Todd & Chris changed the oil/filter and adjusted the canard elevators, then Todd and I went up for one last flight, to the Ponca City OK area and back. Todd demonstrated lean-of-peak operation. The engine was smooth and fuel consumption dropped to about 10 gph but at a loss of 10-12 kt. Even so, at this setting the 260se is considerably more efficient than your average Skyhawk, and I might use it if I really want to eliminate a fuel stop or extend range (and there's a tailwind to help out). 812KT's EGT "spread" with the stock TCM injectors is 50-60 degrees; according to Todd this is near the maximum one would want when running LOP. More than that and power/airspeed loss become rather marked. We'll see what my flying patterns are over the next 6-10 months, then if I want to run LOP fairly often I might consider trying a set of GAMIs.

Friday I departed EQA just before 7:00 am intending to fly all the way home to Palo Alto. I stayed at 4500 feet and then 6500 feet for the last hour into Tucumcari NM on the first leg, running at 2400 rpm and max throttle for break-in, with a 200+ degree ROP mixture setting to keep all CHTs below 380. Of course this used a lot of fuel, 50 gal or so in just 3 hr.

Out of TCC flying towards ABQ I likewise stayed low as long as possible, finally climbing to 8500, then 10,500 near Santa Rosa and Moriarity as the terrain got uncomfortably close. The Center controller even queried me about my choice of altitudes, fearing that I was unaware of the Sandia Mountains looming ahead. Over western NM and eastern AZ the thermal pounding began, and I landed at Holbrook AZ to take on 39 gallons of their cheap fuel ($1.86/gal). I had to phone City Maintenance and wait half an hour for someone to come out to pump the gas!

By that time it was getting hot, with an 8000+ density altitude at Holbrook. Departure with full fuel was no problem (love that 260se!), but the turbulence made itself felt almost immediately. I tried to baby the engine with higher than desirable (100+ kt) airspeeds on climbout to 10,500 and there were longish periods where my rate of climb was ZERO against downdrafts. Despite the odd 1300+ fpm boost from a thermal, the climb to altitude took seemingly forever, almost to Winslow. Once at cruise I left my headprint in the liner several times, while the STEC30 labored mightily to maintain altitude, with groundspeeds varying from 98-115 kt. A bit past Flagstaff I decided that I really didn't need to grind this out and landed at Sedona. The flight home next morning (5:15 am departure) endured 25-30 kt headwinds but was smooth, and after a fuel stop at Delano ($2.16/gal, not bad for California!) I touched down at PAO at 10:48.

The plane ran like a sewing machine all the way. Its cruise speed is within 2-3 knot of 8367E and may yet improve when I can actually run it at best power mixture settings after break-in. I am also very pleased with the avionics. The MX20/SL30 combo is great (thanks Dean for the preview in 21396), and I am quite happy with the STEC30 autopilot: at half the installed price of the STEC55X, it does everything I would want for my own flying. GPSS is terrific! I also like the Garmin 295 on the yoke: flightplans/approaches entered in the 430 are automatically cross-filled to the 295. I will use its map page for VFR and its HSI page for IFR, along with the 8 fields of data provided (where you are, where you're headed, how fast you're getting there, when you'll arrive, what your money market account balance is, whom you're sleeping with, etc.).

I also enjoyed the PM7000CD, although I must admit that I haven't gotten used to the idea of listening to CDs while FLYING.

Thanks Todd, Jo, & Chris for another PPP masterpiece!

[Mike Sullivan]

Kevin,

Everything sounds wonderful! How about posting some pics, we want to see?

Mike

[n2099x]

Kevin, Thank You for the ride yesterday, what a great plane. Everyone around me thanks you also.

Glen

[kwmoore]

Happy to oblige, Glen, and thanks for the tour of the "back-country" and coast of Mendocino county. A gorgeous flight. I could be persuaded to do another one when I bring the plane to David for its oil change/50 hr in a couple of weeks.

I did my IPC in 812KT last night. I went into it a bit apprehensively: new plane, new avionics, virtually no instrument flying since my SR20 checkout last November.

What a pleasant surprise to get reacquainted with the excellent IFR manners of the 260se! Rock solid stable, smooth and predictable control forces, goes exactly where you point it. Even with the CFII's prohibition on use of the autopilot and my rusty skills, I think I could have passed a checkride in this plane; much less likely so in a stock Cessna or the Cirrus.

Special note: as I have mentioned before, partial panel--AI, DG, and 430 covered--was A BREEZE using the TC and the HSI page on the 295. Literally I did not miss the vacuum instruments and did not have to refer to the compass at all unless ATC requested, "fly heading..." I really recommend getting a Garmin 195 or 295 and interfacing it to your panel mount GPS.

We got a chuckle out of my attempt to demonstrate a departure stall under the hood: 24"/2400 rpm, IAS at or below 35, nose pointed at the sky, it still was easily controllable and showed no signs of breaking. We finally gave up on it! :p

Gotta love this plane.

[kwmoore]

With about 34 hr flying N812KT and break-in nearly done, I can make some comparisons with N8367E.

Full aft trim on final, with just myself +/- a front seat passenger, and 12-13" mp gives about 63-65 KIAS. In N8367E this would be 58-60 KIAS or so. Thus 812KT has a little more weight up front (avionics most likely), or perhaps a bit less aft trim travel? A small amount of manual back pressure gets the 50-55 KIAS speed on final with little difficulty. Note that when I've had about 170 lb of PAX in the back seat and 70-80 lb in baggage, full aft trim yielded 57-58 KIAS in 812KT.

Cruise: full throttle and 2620 rpm at 6500 feet and 67 deg F OAT: 151-152 KTAS in 812KT vs 153-154 in 8367E.

812KT pulls about 1" more mp at full throttle than 8367E (likely a gauge variation)

2400 rpm on the EDM800 reads about 2450 on the analog tach. Of course I believe the EDM800! I use 2400 in cruise and cruise climb.

Hot start: 812KT requires throttle about 1" in vs 1/4" or 1/2" in 8367E to get a reliable hot start.

Payload: full fuel payload is 660 lb vs 680 lb in 8367E (avionics again I think).

Overall the slow speed feel of 812KT is just enough different to be distinguishable from 8367E. All within the normal range of 260SE ship-to-ship variations.

[N735GH]

Kevin,

Your enthusiasm for N812KT is palpable and look forward to flying with you in the (near) future. Your numbers look close to mine so their is something to be said for consistency. Pictures yet?.......t

[kwmoore]

Check the new photo albums on this site, there's an album for 812KT on page 2 of the gallery listing

Start by going to

http://www.260sepilots.org

then click on "Photo Albums"

I'll e-mail all forum members about the photo gallery. There are instructions for uploading pictures in the "new website features" thread on this forum.

[kwmoore]

Engine is broken in and we're running 15/50 aeroshell detergent oil now. A number of gaps in the baffles were sealed at the oil change too. #5 cylinder CHT is still limiting, I have to run a bit rich of best power (it's also quite warm at cruise altitudes lately). At the next oil change we'll swap injectors #5 with #6 and #4 with #2, to see if it makes a difference. This morning:

7500 feet
OAT 72 deg F (12 degrees warmer than at PAO, sea level)
altimeter 29.96
9620 feet density altitude

Full available power (70-75% under the conditions)
mp 23" (full throttle)
2620 rpm
CHTs <380
131-132 KIAS, 151-152 KTAS

60-65% power
mp 22"
2400 rpm
CHTs <380 as above
125-126 KIAS, 145-146 KTAS
At least 2-3 gph lower fuel flow, a bargain for a loss of only 5-7 kt

Very little difference compared to 8367E, 2 kt at most.

Landings are consistently soft with 13-14" mp carried through to touchdown, 46-48 KIAS over the fence.

Sweet! :cool:

[kwmoore]

One of my son's high school friends has been taking flying lessons at Palo Alto airport, 11 hr so far in 152s and 172s. So I offered to take him up for a ride in the 260se. Matthew came along and rode in the back seat.

All went swimmingly: "Peterson Departure" out of PAO, slow flight, cross controls, and steep turns at 55 kt, 12 kt x-wind landing at Hollister on 31, then the approach to 31, level off at 55, turn to 24 at 50 kt and land.

We had dinner at Concord, dropped Matthew off with his Mom, and it was twilight when we left for PAO. On the way back I asked him if he had done any night flying yet--he hadn't--so I explained about visual illusions when landing at night.

Arriving at PAO in the dark, I set up what I thought was a fine approach and flare "in the slot." Imagine my dismay when instead of settling to a slick touchdown, we kept sinking another 2-3 feet to a...ah...firm landing. :(

Oh, well, at least he got to see the illusion demonstrated. :rolleyes:

Otherwise, N812KT is doing great at about 66 hr now. On August 12 she goes back to David at Willits for the 2nd oil change.

[Mike Sullivan]

For those of you still trying to decide about doing IFR, let me tell you about Friday nights experience while on one of my last cross-country flights. It was 10 PM and our heading was 320 on our way to the LA basin. The marine layer was "IN" and we were on top at 5000, about 4 miles off shore. The ceiling was 1100. I had just leaned the engine out, when I heard a funny noise from the compartment. It sounded like an engine getting ready to let loose which gives one a rather queasy feeling, especially under IFR night conditions. By the time I muttered "Oh Shit" in my mike, the engine started missing and sputtering. I worked the throttle a bit and tried richening it back up, but to no avail. The engine sputtered and coughed one more time and that was it. Dead Silence– four miles off the coast. Just before it shut down, I glanced at the temperature gauge, and it was very hot and the oil pressure gauge showed zero pressure.

Immediately I hit the GPS "nearest" button, hit the "Direct To", Carlsbad, and put it into a nice slow glide. I could feel the stress in my body and my instructor was shifting rather nervously, but he allowed me to fly the plane. We kept gliding, gliding, gliding and I had it trimmed out to just above stall speed. We began to descend through the marine layer, popped out at about 1150 feet and there were those beautiful blue lights and rotating beacon. What a sight! Kept gliding, gliding, and gliding down, lining up for my final approach, and when I realized we were going to make it, pulled 10 degrees of flap and set her down for a perfect engine out landing through the clouds.

When we stopped rolling, I thanked God that I had decided to pursue IFR training.

Happy Flying.

Mike

[kwmoore]

Wow--congratulations on a very well-managed emergency. Well done Mike.

This was the type of thing that really pushed me to get my own plane, over which I could have complete control of the maintenance and use. I have also experienced an engine loss--in a rental--but in much more benign circumstances, right after liftoff on a long runway.

[Mike Sullivan]

Kevin,

The next morning, back at the flight school, several instructors and the owner were gathering around wanting to know what had happened. When they discovered which plane I had been flying, each one acknowledged that he too had had problems with that plane, although not quite as seriously. They complained about roughness in the engine and even missing, but not one of them had filed a squawk. That plane shouldn't even have been on line. Needless to say, I can't wait to finish my training and get out of that school. Ane it came highly recommended.

I've been trying to decide on a plane. I love the Peterson 260 se but I also have my eye on C185 taildragger "hotrod". I think the 185 fits my personality better. I've always been an "adrenalin" type guy and I guess that's what I got Fri. nite. I did my private may years ago on a taildragger and I loved it. Never had a problem, but of course, it was only a C140. I'm sure the 185 is probably a little more difficult to manage. Have never actually flown one.

No decisions yet, so I'll just stay focused on finishing up my classes and then try and decide. Suggestions???

Mike

[kwmoore]

...are a very personal thing. This being a completely discretionary and very substantial purchase, we all want to fly something that not only meets the mission requirements well but presses most or all of our personal "satisfaction" buttons. The only comparably emotional choice we make in our lives is when we decide to marry!

For some, speed is the thing. Nothing wrong with this, but if speed is paramount, one is better off in a Bonanza, SR22/Columbia, or a turbine. On the old forum I cited a conversation with one such fellow who had his heart set on a Columbia 400: "If we both departed Phoenix at the same time and flew to San Diego, I'd be at Anthony's with two scotches in me and dinner being served by the time you landed," he said to me. "True," I replied, "at your 230+ kt vs my 150, you'd get there about an hour sooner. But in the last analysis, what can one say about a man who'd rather drink for an hour than fly?"

For others, it's power and heft. The 185, 206, 210, or the various versions of the Cherokee 6 are the ticket.

Still others want to fly the very latest in aviation technology. Think Cirrus or Lancair here, and doubtless they'll opt for the new all glass panels now available. Of course, they'll be beta testers until these companies have made a thousand or so units and corrected squawks that develop in the field. But most of them won't mind.

Of course the 260se presses all of my own satisfaction buttons. At 145-150 kt, it's respectably fast enough for any cross country trips I would make. It's really fun to practice its unique capabilities and I think doing so has made me a more skillful stick-and-rudder pilot. Even leaving aside its special performance characteristics, it's among the best compromises overall in speed, payload, efficiency, and comfort in single engine GA. Now factor in its reliability, enhanced safety, outstanding density altitude performance, and minuscule runway requirements, and IMHO nothing else can touch it. To me it is the "thinking man's airplane," unique both literally and figuratively, conceding nothing overall to even the most modern designs. And yes, in this sense I feel--or rather, hope--it fits my own personality.

So, as a pointy-eared green gnome once said in the movies, "Listen to your feelings." If you smile all the time you're flying even after writing an outrageously large check for the plane, you made the right choice. And if the right choice happens to be a 260se, I guarantee you won't be disappointed. :cool:

[n2099x]

Mike, I have always questioned 185 or 260se? The preformance numbers are great on both. My only deciding factor after spending time in my friends shop that rebuilds wings and other surfaces is, he rebuilds more 180-185 wings than all others combined. They come from all over each with its own story, most were flown by pilots with much more experence than myself. Most of which the plane was stranded away sometimes far away from home. I just like to go home when I want to so I stay with my 260se.

Glen

P.S. I will in San Diego Aug 5,6,7 if your in the area I would like to meet you.

[Mike Sullivan]

Glen,

I have to go home Sunday but I'll be back in SD on Monday afternoon. How about we go out to dinner Tues. night, I'll treat.
Are you flying your plane or commerciall? Where are you staying?Phone number? I'll email you my address and phone number and I can pick you up if you like, with the cobra.

Mike

[kwmoore]

Just ticked over 90 hr today on 812KT. I flew Matthew back to San Diego (Montgomery field, MYF) and returned home. 6.6 hr with an additional landing for grins & cheap fuel at Q99 on the way home, total 13.6 gph block-to-block.

About 18 hr ago I had the 2nd oil change at Dave's in Willits. In addition he sealed some more gaps/holes in the baffling and made some cuts in the rubber baffling so it would lay flat against the cowl. We also exchanged injectors between the hottest (#4,5) and coldest (#2,6) cylinders. Overall the difference has been significant and noticeable. I can now lean to best power at altitude. Cylinders #4 & 5 are still hottest; at ~100 deg F ROP #5 is 385-389 CHT and #4 is 380-385. The rest of the CHTs are 375 or below. When the engine and OAT are both warm for departure, I still need to run the boost pump on low for a little while climbing up to about 4000 feet to keep the hottest CHT at 390 or below, then full rich mixture is OK through about 5500. After that I can lean in the climb. Of course, the weather has been warm here with significant temperature inversions. An example from earlier this week: departing Watsonville in late afternoon the temperature on the ground was 65 deg F, and at 3000 feet it was 90!

Sample cruise performance today:

8500 feet
OAT 67 degrees F (10,650 feet DA)
altimeter 29.88
21.8" mp (full throttle)
2400 rpm
100-110 deg ROP
Cowl flaps slightly open (1 or 2 notches)
124-126 KIAS, about 146-148 KTAS

Returning to PAO there was a ~12 kt headwind landing rwy 31. I came in over the (displaced) threshold at 48-50 KIAS, touched down with little float, and then had to ADD POWER to get to the first turnoff. The first turnoff is less than 700 feet from the displaced threshold!

And, at the risk of jinxing myself, this marks 93 hr flying 812KT with NO CANCELLED FLIGHTS due to MX. The only thing that has needed fixing was a landing light switch. This is on top of my final 100 hr in 8367E with NO CANCELLED FLIGHTS.

Gotta love this plane.

[kwmoore]

On the way home from a 50 hr inspection at Sierra Pacific Aviation in Willits yesterday:

5500 feet
OAT 60 deg F
altimeter 29.85
full throttle
2400 rpm
cowl flaps closed
autopilot in altitude-hold mode, no turbulence
leaned to EGTs <1380 and CHTs <385, approx. best power
133-134 KIAS

This compares to 2099X's reported 140-141 KIAS under similar conditions (Correct, Glen? If not what was it?).

115 happy hours on the tach and looking forward to AOPA Expo.

[n2099x]

Kevin, checking back on my note pad the only difference was at 5500 the OAT was 73 and 30.03. See you next tuesday in Palm Springs. Glen

[Squeege]

Kevin,

Your "best power" is that 75% bhp, or are you going all out for speed? You have the JPI 800; what percentage were these numbers at?

TIA,

Squeege

[kwmoore]

I don't cruise under those conditions, I was just trying to replicate Glen's settings to get an idea of his speed advantage.

My EDM800 is set to read out rpm, rather than %power. It won't read %power because the fuel flow function is connected to an FS450, not the EDM800.

[kwmoore]

A couple of weeks ago I had a few minor MX items taken care of locally (San Carlos, SQL), and I asked that the max fuel flow be adjusted upwards 0.5-1 gph so I could get a richer mixture on takeoff and climbout with more engine cooling.

As requested, the max power fuel flow at sea level is now 21.5 gph, up from ~20.5 gph, and I haven't had to use the low boost pump setting since then to keep that pesky #5 CHT below 390 on climbout.

However there is now a change in 812KT's cruise power. At 7500 feet or above I have typically used max throttle and 2450 rpm, with mp, fuel flow, etc. as reported in earlier posts. Post-adjustment, I now get at least 0.5" maybe even 0.7" lower manifold pressure at altitude, with a correspondingly lower fuel flow (0.7-1 gph lower than before) when leaned to 100-110 ROP as I usually do. I had noted it in brief flights since the MX, but documented this change extensively at 4 different cruise altitudes--7500/8500/9500/10,500--on a trip to San Diego and back this weekend and the results were consistently as described. Conditions were still close to standard so it is not an OAT issue. Of course the cruise TAS is also lower, by 3-4 kt. What's going on here?

On balance I had a reasonable tailwind going down Saturday, so GS was not bad. Interestingly, returning today I crossed a cold front near Santa Barbara, the winds aloft turned around at least 90 degrees and the temperature dropped 5-6 degrees. The front was pretty dry, marked only by some wimpy cumulus with a little virga at 10,500 and above. From Santa Barbara to Palo Alto I again had a 7-8 kt tailwind. I never have tailwinds on both legs of a trip!

[Todd Peterson]

This is a strange one indeed.

If the only thing adjusted was the upper end fuel flow it should have no bearing on the manifold pressure at altitude. My guess is that during the adjustment, which usually requires hooking up a fuel pressure gauge in the fuel line, something was moved and it now slightly out of adjustment.

The fuel line that one hooks into is behind the throttle body and is not the easiest thing to get to. If the throttle body has been moved or it shifted as a result of their work it is quite possible that the throttle arm is no longer opening up all the way. It is important that the throttle arm actually hit the stop on the throttle body at the full open and closed position.

Then again if it gives you a tailwind both directions you might want to leave it.

[n2099x]

I wondered where I got that extra .5 of manifold pressure the other day. I was flying along thinking mp is a little higher than normal. But I had 35-50kt headwinds so it didn't help much.

I can't imagine trying to hook up a fuel pressure gauge on back at the throttle body. It's hard enough to loosen and tighten that line. I think its easier to turn the ajustment screw and go test fly it.

That #5 cyl is still giving you problems? How hot are the temps when it is running at 390?

Glen

[kwmoore]

Originally posted by n2099x
How hot are the temps when it is running at 390?

The #4 and #5 cylinders have the highest CHT, at least 25-30 degrees higher than the coolest cylinder (#6). Even so at 100-110 ROP the #5 EGT is among the coolest (1330-1340) while the #4 EGT is nearly the warmest (close to 1400).

[kwmoore]

The hose was detached from the air box. Likely it was not properly reattached or even overlooked when the fuel flow and rpm adjustments were made. So I was flying for ~10 hr with this thing flapping around inside the cowling! Cripes.

Fortunately I avoided two potential Bad Consequences, as explained by Todd: ingestion of something into the engine and/or the loose hose pinching closed, causing immediate IO-470 emphysema. :eek: Be careful when you take your bird to a new place for work!

I have now added one additional item to my post-maintenance checklist. Can you guess what it is? :rolleyes:

With the hose refastened properly, 812KT returned to its former cruise and fuel flow, e.g.

7500 feet
38 deg OAT
altimeter 30.00
23"/2450 rpm
100-110 ROP, 15.3-15.4 gph on the FS450
133-135 KIAS; 148-150 KTAS