Building my 3rd 260SE

[kwmoore]

I will use this thread to report on things as they happen during the project. Photos will be posted here. (http://www.260sepilots.org/gallery/N812PL)

It looks like we will begin soon. Todd has tentatively identified an airframe, and it remains to pick it up and bring it to EQA.

Just after the New Year when I signed on for another Peterson Masterpiece, Todd and I discussed what I wanted in an airframe. This distilled down to the following:

Absolute maximum 2500 TT airframe, preferably <2000 TT.
182P or 182Q, I didn't really care.
As clean as they come (no corrosion, wrinkles, dings on the sheet metal)
A fast one (straight airframe)--a matter of personal satisfaction rather than utility.
A competitive acquisition price.

I indicated I was willing to wait to find a platform that met these criteria, then act immediately when such a plane was located.

There wasn't long to wait! Todd-- or was it Jo, as rumor suggests? ;) --found a one-owner, always hangared, zero corrosion 1975 182P only an hour and a half flight away in western Iowa. Logs were complete, covering all of its 1180 TTAE! Todd examined it, found it to be among the very cleanest he'd seen, and took it for a test flight. It flew straight, and with the original engine still under the cowl, trued out at book speeds. :) In the Petersons' experience they cannot predict how fast the final product will be, but this is a good place to start. Who knows, maybe I'll be able to run with Glen's 2099X. The price was very attractive, too.

So, I think this is an auspicious beginning.

This will be my third project with Peterson's Performance Plus. Some of you no doubt consider this a bit quixotic. As mentioned in other threads on this forum, I sold the first one to capture appreciation (yes, appreciation), then sold the second one because of some temporary unfavorable professional circumstances that severely restricted time available to fly. Fortunately, these circumstances no longer exist so I decided, with Senior Management's blessing, to get back into ownership.

Despite having been down this road twice before, I still CAN'T WAIT to fly it. Nonetheless I will enjoy the process, as I have had a great time working with Todd & Jo on the other two planes. I intend this to be my final aircraft, for however much longer I can qualify for a class III medical. :)

[kwmoore]

Weight 1770 lb
Length 28 feet

Mommy and Daddy are doing fine (Todd and Jo had a good flight up and back). ;)

Jo did a speed run on the way back: "At 6,500 feet she had 22.5 inches HG and with 2400 rpm the airplane's TAS was 144-145 knots. I think the numbers were 130 KIAS, 6,500 ft with an OAT of 47F. The pressure was around 29.87 if memory serves me correct." That's already within a couple knots of my 812KT under similar conditions--great place to start! :)

[Brian]

Weight 1800 lb
Length 28 feet

Mommy and Daddy are doing fine (Todd and Jo had a good flight up and back). ;)

Jo did a speed run on the way back: "At 6,500 feet she had 22.5 inches HG and with 2400 rpm the airplane's TAS was 144-145 knots. I think the numbers were 130 KIAS, 6,500 ft with an OAT of 47F. The pressure was around 29.87 if memory serves me correct." That's already within a couple knots of my 812KT under similar conditions--great place to start! :)



Kevin, what engine monitor are you looking at?

[kwmoore]

I will stick with Todd's gold standard, the JPI EDM700. (http://www.jpinstruments.com/) I want to add rpm and manifold pressure functions, as I really liked those on the EDM800 I had in 812KT. If that cannot be done, I'll have the JPI slimline (http://www.jpinstruments.com/slimline.html) rpm and mp gauges installed. The EDM700 is nice but its fuel flow function is but one of many data readouts. For fuel flow, I'll have instead a dedicated instrument, the Fuel Scan 450. (http://www.jpinstruments.com/fuel_scan.html) This unit interfaces with the Garmin 430/530 to provide fuel information for the latter's trip planning page, including fuel remaining at destination. In 812KT on one or two occasions where fuel reserve was a possible concern, I simply used this information to lean a bit further LOP until the trip planning page showed an hour or more of fuel remaining at destination.

I considered the EDM900 or -930 "all-in-one" instrument packages but the EDM700 & FS450 will provide all the capability I need at significantly lower cost. Moreover I'll still have the standard-issue Cessna gauges in the panel so I'll be airworthy if the EDM stuff goes on the fritz. It would be really frustrating to be stranded somewhere because one of the flashy modern "certified primary" units had a software glitch and couldn't operate properly. I have had enough of that type of thing renting Cirrus! :rolleyes: The old Cessna stuff doesn't tell you much but it keeps you legal to fly if you need it!

With this equipment I'll have what I need to safely and competently run LOP and accurately monitor fuel consumption and projected fuel reserve.

With Todd's current production schedule, it looks like my plane will be sent out for avionics first. I have sent proposals for bids to two well-regarded Kansas avionics shops and hope that the choice can be finalized within a week or two so we can get underway. Once the design is "frozen," I'll post it here along with my rationale for the various choices. :)

[LEVON HOPKINS]

Kevin, could you elaborate on the EDM700 and 450 Fuel Flow. I have the Garmin 530 and EDM700 and was planning to install the optional fuel flow Feb. 23rd start of annual for about $370 for transducer JPI (considering FlowTron Transducer at $75 but don't know what's missing) while the 450 is $646. The install is estimated at $250 - 300. Fuel is gravity fed on the O 470 U engine.

Why have the 450 when almost everything is in the 700 and the, according to the JPI Factory, egt and fuel flow are shown simultaneously? Could it be that the 450 is easier to monitor, constant "on", or it's difficult to work with on the 530 and/or 496 already installed? I'm really asking for your "thinking" and your past experience. Thanks. Looking forward to your build-up photo album and info. Levon

[kwmoore]

Could it be that the 450 is easier to monitor, constant "on", or it's difficult to work with on the 530 and/or 496 already installed? I'm really asking for your "thinking" and your past experience.
I'm sure the fuel flow option will work nicely on the EDM700. I just like having the fuel flow as a dedicated instrument: always on; big, easy to read display; scrolls through some useful information while I can see other things I want to know on the EDM700. Personal preference.

[LEVON HOPKINS]

Thanks. Levon

[breaktime]

Kevin,
With this airframe already truing out at 144-145 you have a good shot at the 152-153 target airspeeds, maybe more :cool: . Nice airframe, I know Tod (Jo :D ) knows how to pick em.
Do you mind sharing your target budget for this project? I'm pretty sure it will be fully equipped including BRS, right?

Good luck,
George

[kwmoore]

With this airframe already truing out at 144-145 you have a good shot at the 152-153 target airspeeds, maybe more :cool: .
I hope so, although as I mentioned this is solely a matter of personal satisfaction and has very little to do with utility. On a 500 nm trip, 150 vs. 155 KTAS makes about a 7 minute difference...and what 260se owner wouldn't mind spending an extra 7 minutes flying their plane, anyway? :)

I used to visit the Columbia owners' forum and once traded good-natured barbs with a prospective Col400 owner:

"If we both left Phoenix at the same time and flew to San Diego, I'd be at Anthony's with two scotches in me and dinner being served by the time you landed," he opined.

"That's true," I replied, "at your 240 kt to my 150, you'd get there about an hour sooner. But in the last analysis, what can one say about a pilot who'd rather drink for an hour than fly?" :D

The exchange ended at that point. :) :rolleyes:

Do you mind sharing your target budget for this project? I'm pretty sure it will be fully equipped including BRS, right?
As of now, it will be a Millenium Edition Katmai with BRS and standard landing gear with speed kit. I may do some mountain and canyon flying (http://www.mountaincanyonflying.com) training in the future and the standard gear--wheelpants removed of course--will be fine for this. At the risk of Todd's declining to provide a "No Wimps" sticker for my plane :o, I don't plan to do any really "rough field work," although it's good to know the plane could handle it in an emergency.

My approach to the budget is to get what I feel I need and will use, rather than what I might only "want," and let the result play out. This is particularly true in the avionics area, which can be a real budget-buster if it gets out of control. I will post about this when I have selected a shop and finalized a panel design. Film at eleven!

[kwmoore]

We are in the process of choosing options for the plane. I must thank Jo publicly here for the time she has spent chasing down the answers to some of my questions. Some of the choices are:

Oil filter & adapter to replace oil screen. Why does TCM still sell engines with oil screens, anyway? MX shops are booked up in the Bay Area and changing oil every 25 hr (recommended if you have an oil screen) is a pain.

I pondered a 406 MHz ELT, but after learning that this would be $1500 or more :rolleyes:, I decided to pass and buy a personal locator beacon instead (~$650).

Flap gap seals and a cowling fairing would each be a little more than $1100 installed. I decided to wait until we see how fast she goes after the IO-470 and standard speed kit are installed.

HID landing light (lifetime guarantee) and longer-life quartz taxi light. I hated it when landing or taxi lights burned out in 8367E or 812KT. And they did. Often.

Abrasion boots on the horizontal stabilizer.

BAS seatbelts--Norm is a persuasive guy! ;)

Leak-proof tire tubes--it's very inconvenient to inflate tires at PAO.

EDM700 with OAT and oil temp options. Slimline electronic tach and manifold pressure gauges.

FS450 fuel flow, interfaced to the GNS530.

Low vacuum warning light and vacuum gauge in pilot's primary scan.

Sporty's backup electric AI.

Vertical card compass--it's like a miniature DG! It has always been difficult for me to steer with reference to the conventional "whiskey compass." I've never been diagnosed myself, but mild dyslexia does run in my family!

GAMIjectors. I plan to run LOP regularly. I want the GAMi lean test spread to be no more than 0.2 - 0.3 gph. This should result in minimal speed loss running LOP. If I'm fortunate that this turns out to be a 155 kt best power, ROP airplane, then 150 kt should be achievable on 11-12 gph LOP with really well balanced injectors. This is comparable efficiency to a Cirrus SR20 running best power, ROP--really remarkable! :cool:

[kwmoore]

I have finalized the avionics choices. I sent proposals to a total of five places, two in California. One hasn't even acknowledged receipt of the proposal. The other responded that they could provide a bid in two weeks or a little more because they were "swamped." Another three did respond, but two of the responses took the better part of a week and left a number of the questions unanswered or in one case incorrectly answered. One of these was a full 19% higher than the other two. Equipment prices were comparable but the labor estimate worked out to ten person-weeks at their stated hourly rate. As you will see this will not be an overly complex installation.

The job will be done at Bevan-Rabell. They did the panels in my previous planes, with which I was very happy. Their response was prompt, thorough, professional and competitively priced. Questions were answered quickly. It seems like they actually wanted the job.

Having owned two previous planes, I had a pretty good idea what I would really use and what was merely "nice to have." I fly mostly VFR with occasional light-moderate IFR. California weather is mostly benign; for all but about 4 months of the year the main IMC you're likely to find is coastal stratus. The remainder of the time--usually December through March--if it's stormy it's often not flyable IFR because of high MEAs and temperatures below freezing at or even well below MEA.

8367E (http://www.260sepilots.org/gallery/N8367E-Moore/aaf)was less well equipped than I want. 812KT (http://www.260sepilots.org/forums/showthread.php?t=193) was pretty much right on. Its main components were MX20 MFD/GNS430/SL30/GTX330. However it was now possible to have even more functionality at considerably less cost by choosing the GPSMAP496, which will be on the yoke, instead of the GMX200 (Garmin's MX20 replacement). So here's what it will be:

PM8000B audio panel

GNS530w with GI-106 CDI #1

SL30 with GI-106 CDI #2

GTX330 transponder, TIS traffic playing on the 530w

STEC30 with GPSS

GPSMAP496 on the yoke
Flightplans crossfilled from the 530w
Can download frequencies to the SL30
XM radio piped through the audio panel

Sporty's backup electric AI, EDM700 engine monitor, FS450 fuel flow, JPI slimline electronic tach and manifold pressure gauges.

All new wiring & antennas; metal panels with internally lit instruments.

The total will come to just under $60K, about 50% of the most opulent 260se panel I've heard about. The avionics will be done first while Todd finishes up work on another plane or two in his shop.

[kwmoore]

Why STEC30? I really liked this autopilot in 812KT and in a couple of SR20s I've flown. It has heading hold, altitude hold, NAV tracking and GPSS. It lacks the glideslope capture, VS control and altitude capture of the STEC55X, but at about half of the installed price it has all the capability I need for my mostly VFR flying. Integrated into the turn coordinator, it takes up zero extra panel space.

Why 530w/SL30 instead of dual 430w? The price differential was about $2K, not much in the overall scheme of things but when I reflected whether in almost 700 hr of flying 260se's I ever wished I had dual panel-mount GPS the answer was "no."

The GPSMAP496 is remarkably capable: map display quality comparable to or better than the MX20, XM weather, airport taxi diagrams, AOPA airport database, rapidly (5 Hz) updating faux panel display available in the unlikely event the vacuum and electrical systems both fail. All of this for about 1/3 of the price of a GMX200 (before you add weather, traffic etc. to that unit). And when I'm through flying for the day I can take it in the car and it will tell Senior Management where the nearest Szechuan restaurant is! ;)

A final important aspect is that I'm aware that the age of after-market glass panels is coming. The equipment I'm installing will "play" with a Garmin G600 if I (or a subsequent owner) decide to install one. In contrast the GMX200 would be superfluous in a panel featuring the G600, and I don't believe that it would retain much resale value over the next few years.

[jjbely]

Hi Kevin,

I am following up your choices with great interest. Your choice of 530/sl30 Vs the twin 430 option would not work so well from my SR22 experience. With 2 x 430, you can crossfill your file plans and have at the same time 2 screens/type of info Vs one larger one. You may have one set on map and the other set to FP for exemple or Stormscope. I also often use the #2 as a DME to get distance to the threshold/ILS marker and you can use both for a GPS aproach. Not sure about the cost difference but I would miss that..

As far as the Stec 30, I will likely follow your choice, I like and use a lot the 55X Vertical speed knob but then, the price difference is huge.

AI with battery back up is a must also for me, in your case is it a secondary unit or the sole AI ?

406 MHZ Elt, I would go for it but then my flying is often over pretty bad terrain.

What type of HSI/DG will you have. I am used to the old Sandel SN 3308 and I think it's much more capable than the standard HSI. I also reckon it should be easier to maintain than a traditional one. I will likely go for the 3500 as the 3308 is no more sold.

I am still wondering about the chute...


Cheers,

JJ

[nworth]

You may have one set on map and the other set to FP for exemple or Stormscope. I also often use the #2 as a DME to get distance to the threshold/ILS marker and you can use both for a GPS aproach. Not sure about the cost difference but I would miss that..

As far as the Stec 30, I will likely follow your choice, I like and use a lot the 55X Vertical speed knob but then, the price difference is huge.

AI with battery back up is a must also for me, in your case is it a secondary unit or the sole AI ?

406 MHZ Elt, I would go for it but then my flying is often over pretty bad terrain.

What type of HSI/DG will you have. I am used to the old Sandel SN 3308 and I think it's much more capable than the standard HSI.

I am still wondering about the chute...

A few comments about my experience in 725AS now that I have had some more time to live with the avionics:

Twin 430s: I REALLY like the twin 430s (though as noted below, today I would opt for a 530/430 pair) for all the reasons JJ mentioned. I use it as a separate "MFD" for traffic but it's especially useful, as noted, as a quasi-DME. The FP and PROCs are in the top unit and the bottom can be set up to show the threshold or distance to on-field VOR or whatever. Extremely useful.

In retrospect, in order to save a few AUs, I would also go with the STEC 30 vs the 55X. The VS is nice but hardly essential and, since I didn't get the capture option, I have found myself flying through altitudes once or twice with VS set -- this wouldn't happen if I was hand flying.

The Sporty's backup AI is great. Also, I installed the separate vacuum gauge with red warning light for the primary AI (and I keep suction cup gauge covers in the glove compartment). It's a good setup.

I also went with the separate PLB. Won't do me much good if I crash and am unconscious but I fly over water fairly often and it makes a lot of sense to have something I can take into the life raft.

I LOVE the Sandel 3500. I priced the STEC HSI and one other (Century, I think) all-electric HSIs and discovered the price differential with the Sandel was nominal. Having gone this route, I am really pleased.

The PBM8000 is excellent. Can't go wrong even though I predict you will not use all the features!

I would have preferred getting a 530 and 430 and dumping the Avidyne MFD. The EX500 is more annoying than useful. Also, it's flaky, sometimes requiring reboots. Thankfully, it's really all secondary info. The 496 on the yoke is really all you need. It's awesome.

You will love the seatbelts and the BRS, whatever you make think about it otherwise, will persuade lots more people to go fly with you!!!

[kwmoore]

Your choice of 530/sl30 Vs the twin 430 option would not work so well from my SR22 experience. With 2 x 430, you can crossfill your file plans and have at the same time 2 screens/type of info Vs one larger one. You may have one set on map and the other set to FP for exemple or Stormscope. I also often use the #2 as a DME to get distance to the threshold/ILS marker and you can use both for a GPS aproach. Not sure about the cost difference but I would miss that...
I've flown quite a bit with the twin 430s in Cirrus as well. I do like the setup for all the reasons you said. An additional factor I neglected to mention (unique to me): Senior Management likes the big map, so if I wasn't getting a GMX200, the 530w was the choice from that point of view too. I'll see how it goes, but I happily flew IFR and VFR with a single panel-mount 430 for a long time, both in my 260se's and in a "Jurassic" vintage Cirrus SR20 A configuration.

AI with battery back up is a must also for me, in your case is it a secondary unit or the sole AI ?
The primary units will be vacuum driven. The Sporty's electric AI is secondary. I often rented a PFD SR22 that had the MidContinent "Lifesaver" AI with battery backup. I agree, in an all-electric airplane the battery backup in the auxiliary AI is a must. In our planes however, there is already redundancy in the vacuum/electric systems. In the extremely unlikely event of a simultaneous vacuum & electrical failure, I will still have the faux panel display on the 496.

What type of HSI/DG will you have. I am used to the old Sandel SN 3308 and I think it's much more capable than the standard HSI. I also reckon it should be easier to maintain than a traditional one. I will likely go for the 3500 as the 3308 is no more sold.
I will not have an HSI, just a regular DG with heading bug. For me at least, the moving maps in the 530 and 496 provide the information I want and an HSI would not add genuine flying utility commensurate with cost. If I want to look at an HSI I can scroll to the panel display in the 496. An additional factor in my choice to leave out an HSI is the imminent availability of retrofit glass panels. If I or a future owner decides to install a G600 or similar unit, an HSI, like the GMX200, would be money down the drain.

Thanks both Norm and JJ for your interesting input! :)

[Squeege]

Kevin,

What you describe is a very utilitarian panel, perfect for both VFR and IFR (situational awareness) flying. I find the STEC 30/GPSS works great with the 530; I use my #2 navcom for ATIS/AWOS/ASOS and monthly VOR checks and that's about it. The 530 with my lowly ;) 295 provides all of the info the guys above mention that the 2nd 430 does numbers-wise (no Stormscope page). I will continue to lust after the new Garmin handhelds a while longer before upgrading.

Just a note: my AI was slowing last year and I replaced it with a SigmaTek AI with vacuum flag. When I decide to do the whole panel in the future, I will add the electric back-up AI as well as pull the ADF and DME. I really thought I would use them, but I don't at all.

Glad to see you back building another. Looks like I'll have to make a trip to KS to see the metamorphasis.

Louise

[kwmoore]

The 530 with my lowly ;) 295 provides all of the info the guys above mention that the 2nd 430 does numbers-wise (no Stormscope page).
I had a 295 on the yoke hooked up to the 430 in 812KT--great unit, well ahead of its time (usual for garmin, eh?). The only weak spot was the short battery life, but that was before the great advances in batteries catalyzed by the cellphone industry. :)

[witrakw]

Interesting comments about panels:

I have been veryhappy with my nonglass panel...The guts of it is gns430 and mx20. There is so much info on these two units that all of the backups I had put in rarely get used except for the #2navcom for listening to awos/atis while on center freq.

Additional likes:
-vacuum failure light, right next to gen warning light.
-jpi450 fuel flow...separate gauge and more panel space but my eye can find it faster than a bunch of little numbers on my edm. And no additional button punching. It has failed on me once, however.
-stec30,,,,stone simple,,,,rock solid on tracking,,,lots of pretty colored flashinglights
-DG,,,,,don't miss a HSI utility because of MFD's. less cost/maintence.

what I don't like:
-stec 30 turn coordinator seems way slow in relevelling if I am taxiing and take a sharp turn. No appreciable problem in the air, but I tend to turn slowly and am not into spinning.
-background high pitched rpm noise on my #2navcom that has not been able to be fixed yet.


Kevin: I would have thought you would have put in an active TCAS since you are in that "fourlane highway in the sky" calif. area. My airspace is much less congested unless I head to MSP, but even still I think that I am going to bite the bullet and put it in this year.
Did you notice the same Stec 30 turn coord problem??



bill witrak

[kwmoore]

Additional likes:
-vacuum failure light, right next to gen warning light.
-jpi450 fuel flow...separate gauge and more panel space but my eye can find it faster than a bunch of little numbers on my edm. And no additional button punching. It has failed on me once, however.
-stec30,,,,stone simple,,,,rock solid on tracking,,,lots of pretty colored flashinglights
-DG,,,,,don't miss a HSI utility because of MFD's. less cost/maintence.
I agree and will be doing all of this.

I would have thought you would have put in an active TCAS since you are in that "fourlane highway in the sky" calif. area. My airspace is much less congested unless I head to MSP, but even still I think that I am going to bite the bullet and put it in this year.
Did you notice the same Stec 30 turn coord problem??
As mentioned in another thread, post #13, (http://www.260sepilots.org/forums/showthread.php?t=402&page=1&pp=15) the GTX330 gave me coverage in all of the congested areas out here. It's net additional cost is about 1/3 that of a TAS-600, so I decided that ~70% of the utility at 33% of the cost was a reasonable compromise for me. :)

I do not recall any TC issues with my STEC30.

[freestone]

Kevin, the new artex me 406 beacon is less than $1,000.

You should definately go for that. They are ending 121.5 monitoring in 2009. The response time difference and area needed to be covered difference between the two is staggering.

[kwmoore]

They are ending 121.5 monitoring in 2009. The response time difference and area needed to be covered difference between the two is staggering.
That will be exactly the time when my plane comes up for its biannual IFR certification; could be a good time to swap out the ELT then. In the meantime I'll have the PLB.

[kwmoore]

All projects have periods when nothing substantial seems to occur but nonetheless considerable work is being done to enable the "substantial" milestones. :) Current report from Jo:

Everything is going well. The fuel system has been completed. The engine mount has been bead blasted and it and the Canard structure will be painted in the next couple of days. The boost pump wiring and circuit breaker have been installed. The control column collar has been modified for the Canard pushrod. With any luck we should have the engine mount installed on the airplane and ready for the engine by the end of next week. The wing extensions arrived. The BAS belts/harnesses have been ordered; since they are a special order color lead time is four weeks. All Cessna parts, i.e. abrasion boots, oil filter adapter, replacement fairings, etc.; new glass, speed kit and HIDs’, Skytec starter, Hobbs, low vac warning light, and tires and tubes are here. The BRS, JPI items, extended baggage will be ordered presently. A few items, i.e., Gami’s, air vents, will be ordered later in the construction.

[nworth]

Kevin,

Did you check the engine to confirm you actually need GAMI's?

I was surprised to discover that my engine, stock from the factory, turned in a "GAMI Spread" of .2 gal, about as good as GAMI ever hopes to do with their custom injectors.

I can run down to about 100 LOP at lower altitudes (<9000) with no problem at all (though usually run about 25 LOP).

This was a very nice surprise. Maybe your engine will be the same....

[kwmoore]

Todd & Jo will check the GAMI lean test spread first; however Jo's comment based on the engine's peformance in 260PT was, "this engine will need GAMIs." :)

[kwmoore]

The engine should be installed this coming week. There will also be periodic progress updates on the PPP blog. (http://www.katmai-260se.net/)

[kwmoore]

The engine is in and will have some test flights over the next week or so. The rest of the mods (canard, speed kit, wingtip extensions) will go in over the next couple of weeks, and refurbishing should be completed by late April. We have a timeframe for beginning avionics installation of 23-30 April, with projected completion 4-11 June. That leaves paint and interior, likely 3-4 weeks each, and BRS installation, so it looks (optimistically) like early-mid August for completion!

[kwmoore]

Kent at Bevan Rabell made me aware of a rebate on 400 & 500 series units along with some credits for attending a seminar. This made the cost of dual 430w units just about the same--slightly less, actually!--as the 530w/SL30 combination. Accordingly I decided to go with the dual 430w installation. JJ and Norm will be pleased. ;)

It looks like Todd will be finished with engine, canard, speed kit, wingtip extensions, and refurbishing at the end of the month, in time for an April 30 start at Bevan. The avionics should take about 6 weeks.

After that it's paint, interior, and BRS. We're getting there! :cool:

[nworth]

Kent at Bevan Rabell made me aware of a rebate on 400 & 500 series units along with some credits for attending a seminar. This made the cost of dual 430w units just about the same--slightly less, actually!--as the 530w/SL30 combination. Accordingly I decided to go with the dual 430w installation. JJ and Norm will be pleased. ;)

It's not obvious but it matters how you wire up your 430's and 496. In my plane, the top 430 links to the bottom 430 which, in turn links to the 396.

I prefer to set the crossfill options so that when setting up the top 430 (the primary nav unit), changing flight plan and/or (IFR) procedures copies the result to the bottom 430 and thence to the 396. So far so good.

However, in certain cases, I like to set up the bottom 430 as a quasi-DME. This is especially useful in VOR based procedures with multiple step downs. In that case, it's non-obvious where the MAP is. By setting the VOR id in the #2, you can get that DME reading directly. There are numerous other cases where this capability is useful.

It's possible to set up the 430's so the cross-fill is only one way. That is, setting the top 430 results in the plan appearing in the bottom 430. Often, that is just fine. However, in cases where you want to set up the quasi-DME, a special crossfill setting in the 2nd 430 will NOT crossfill back to the #1 430 just as you want.

Unfortunately, on my plane, the 396 is in the chain from the #2 430 so this means it recieves the "flight plan" from the #2 430. This is usually not what is desired. To change this now is a big deal.

The point is, you may want to consider just how you rig up the 3 GPS units in your new plane. These new avionics often work and play together in unexpected ways.

[kwmoore]

The point is, you may want to consider just how you rig up the 3 GPS units in your new plane. These new avionics often work and play together in unexpected ways.
These are very good points and well worth pondering. My current plan is that GNS430 #1 and #2 will be configured as in the SR20/22 to enable pilot-selectable crossfill from #1 --> #2 or vice versa. The 496 will be crossfilled only from #1, which is appropriate for me because I always use #1 as primary NAV.

[jjbely]

These are very good points and well worth pondering. My current plan is that GNS430 #1 and #2 will be configured as in the SR20/22 to enable pilot-selectable crossfill from #1 --> #2 or vice versa. The 496 will be crossfilled only from #1, which is appropriate for me because I always use #1 as primary NAV.

I am like Norm and use the #2 430 almost constantly as a DME while the #1 is used for the flight plan and loading of the procedure. I don't crossfill the approach on #2. Automatic crossfill is off on both 430, I just use manual crossfill when needed. No surprise at the wrong time.

Re the 496 (in my case it will be a 296 for terrain only as we have no XM around here) Is it complicated/costly to hardwire the power supply and the 430 ? With a backup battery operated AI and a portable Garmin, one can survive an electric/vacum loss and go home. Cheap insurance indeed.

JJ

Ps I will be visiting Todd next week and see your project :)

[kwmoore]

Re the 496 (in my case it will be a 296 for terrain only as we have no XM around here) Is it complicated/costly to hardwire the power supply and the 430?
No it's not expensive or complicated; the cost to do this during an installation should be microscopic, especially compared to the overall cost of the new panel. Any Garmin dealer should be able to do it. Several Cirrus owners have also had this done as a retrofit, you might search the COPA forums or send me a PM and I'll let you know the names of the ones I know about.

Ps I will be visiting Todd next week and see your project :)
All right! :) I think you'll really enjoy visiting them, and your demo flight in Todd's Katmai should be breathtaking.

[morrisond]

So what does Todd mean when he says he does a complete Airframe refurbish rebuild?

Does the mean that every wire, tube, cable, fuel line is replaced? Every panel removed? Airelon hinges replaced, glass, insulation etcc..

Is there a write up anywhere on what is involved in his process?

[kwmoore]

I'm sure it's different for each airframe. Some need this, some need that. For example, on my most recent one he replaced one fuel tank (original) but did not replace the other as it was only 3-4 years old. In contrast both original fuel tanks were replaced on 812KT. Probably the best way to learn about it is a phone call with Todd himself, but please wait until he's finished with mine and has sent it off to avionics! ;) :D

[joejenie]

Kevin,

I'm getting a little more serious about this Katmai thing. I have a 2006 Scout now, but I have 3 kids and they all fight to get their turn. So this plane could make a lot of sense for me. It would also be nice to have something that could fly from SGU to SLC once in awhile (I did that flight once in the Scout and won't do it again!).

Have you flown in the 300 SE yet? What is the price difference between the 260 and the 300? If money wasn't the consideration, would you go with the bigger motor or not?

If I go this way I'm definitely going to turn the plane into basically a new airplane including the newest neatest avionics (within reason). I will probably do 2-430's, S-TEC 55x autopilot, 327, PMA8000 and a Sandel 3500. I will also add TCAS. Are you installing a 496 in the panel (Air Gizmo) as well? Can you do that in this airplane (or is their room)?

In the end, this could end up being a 250-300k excursion and the only thing that scares me is will I get most of my money out if I decide to sell it in a couple years? I don't see any for sale, so that is good!

[kwmoore]

Have you flown in the 300 SE yet? What is the price difference between the 260 and the 300? If money wasn't the consideration, would you go with the bigger motor or not?
Welcome to our little neck of the woods Joe!

No I haven't, Todd just installed the first IO-550 in a Katmai and I haven't been to visit them since then. The IO-550 is not certified yet, this install (N260PT) is the certification platform. Since the IO-550 is certified in regular 182's it shouldn't take long. I don't know how he's going to price it.

For me the IO-550 doesn't really make much sense, I don't regularly operate out of really short strips at high density altitudes, so I wouldn't get it myself. It's heavier. It uses 2-2.5 gph more in LOP mode, 4-5 gph more when ROP, reducing range. I don't need to takeoff in 250 feet (my guess for the IO-550) instead of 310 feet (IO-470) and I don't need to climb at 1800-2000 fpm (my guess for the IO-550) instead of 1300-1500 fpm (IO-470). The extra 6-7 kt cruise speed is not significant on any but the longest trips. Lastly the IO-470 has a much longer track record (50+ years!--where else but in GA would we brag about a 50-year old component in a product?) as a highly reliable engine; the IO-550 has improved a lot recently but was comparatively speaking significantly less reliable until just a couple of years ago.

If I go this way I'm definitely going to turn the plane into basically a new airplane including the newest neatest avionics (within reason). I will probably do 2-430's, S-TEC 55x autopilot, 327, PMA8000 and a Sandel 3500. I will also add TCAS. Are you installing a 496 in the panel (Air Gizmo) as well? Can you do that in this airplane (or is their room)?

In the end, this could end up being a 250-300k excursion and the only thing that scares me is will I get most of my money out if I decide to sell it in a couple years? I don't see any for sale, so that is good!

I decided to have the 496 on the yoke, where it's right in front of my presbyopically-challenged, bifocal-equipped eyes. Since you're a lot younger than I, this shouldn't be an issue.

Based on the cost of what I'm planning, the panel you describe sounds like at least $90K if it's all new stuff. If you choose an airframe that already has components you can use (many 182Q already have at least a GNS430, for example) it would be less.

As you know from your Cirrus experience, supply and demand drives resale prices. With 260se's, supply is always limiting. For my own past experience buying and selling my two previous 260se's, see this thread, (http://www.260sepilots.org/forums/showthread.php?t=402) and scroll to post #28. Of course, YMMV. "Pete" on this forum recently sold a 260se Millenium Edition that he had owned for 5 years; he might be able to fill you in if you contact him by PM.

Of course Todd can answer all of your questions in more detail. :)

[kwmoore]

A bad spate of weather is delaying delivery of the plane to the avionics shop; it looks like Thursday at the earliest for "first flight" and drop-off at Bevan-Rabell. Perhaps Todd will get a "speed run" in on the brief flight. I'd be interested to hear how it does at this point with the IO-470, canard, and speed kit but prior to paint, wingtip extensions, and GAMIs. 4500 feet is the usual altitude for the brief run from EQA to ICT, I hope we can find out how she performs at 2450 rpm/22"/ROP and 2450 rpm/max throttle/13 gph (75% power LOP).

Avionics should take about 6 weeks, then it's wingtip extensions, paint, interior, BRS and GAMIs (if needed). Mid/late-August completion? Sure hope so. It seems like we're closing in but in reality we're only about half way to the fnish line.

Hard to wait! This Delayed Gratification thing has its drawbacks. :rolleyes:

[jjbely]

Hello Kevin,

I saw your bird yesterday looking good with her new engine and Todd's Katmai. The weather was not very good in Kansas but we managed to fly half an hour in the 260 SE. I had seen the videos and read through the specs and comments about the A/C but I was still amazed at the performance of the aircraft at slow speed and of course the pilot :). Even at very very slow speed, the A/C allways stayed in a flat attitude . I was also impressed by the handling in turns, very smooth and precise, not as crisp as the SR but it seemed to me better balanced between aileron and rudder. last, the A/C accelerates fairly fast and we reached almost the bottom of the yellow arc on 75/80 % power on a FF of 13 Gph. I still have to get used to loosing the vue ahead in the flare. I am convinced I made the good choice and will get a lot of fun out of this aircraft.

Joe, I think you should not waste any more time and fly to Eldorado, it takes six long months to get one built. I have been in a Scout/Citabria and a Maule and the capability, safety, and confort of the 260 SE is no match. If you go for a ride, you will see what we mean.

Finally, I agree with you Kevin on the IO550, I doubt the extra power is worth the extra weight/fuel burn. Except maybe for a professional or just for the sake of having the mother of all stol , I think it's not worth it. Maybe a bit of training from an expert like Todd would be a better investment.

My 0.02.

JJ

on the way for the 18 hours ride to Singapore non stop. :(

[kwmoore]

Click here (http://www.260sepilots.org/gallery/N812PL/aaq) to view a pretty-much-final panel layout (mock-up).

I decided to mount the GPSMAP496 in the panel, based on Bevan's advice that were it mounted on the yoke it might partially obscure the view of some instruments. In addition, this way there are no wires cluttering the area around the pilot's yoke and seat. Nonetheless it is instantly removable (along with the XM antenna) when I park the plane and want to use it in the car.

[joejenie]

Kevin,

I was wondering why you weren't putting the 496 into the panel! I have the 496 in the panel of my Scout currently and it works great in the Air Gizmo box. I plan on doing my panel almost identical to yours. Now the waiting game begins!

[jjbely]

Click here (http://www.260sepilots.org/gallery/N812PL/aaq) to view a pretty-much-final panel layout (mock-up).

I decided to mount the GPSMAP496 in the panel, based on Bevan's advice that were it mounted on the yoke it might partially obscure the view of some instruments. In addition, this way there are no wires cluttering the area around the pilot's yoke and seat. Nonetheless it is instantly removable (along with the XM antenna) when I park the plane and want to use it in the car.

Kevin,

Good set up, I think my panel is going to look a bit like yours with the Gizmo setup, very clean and cost effective. As a matter of personal taste, not very rational I am afraid, I would put the 496 below the twin 430 instead of on top for easier access to the radio and look . Regarding the left of the panel, maybe a swap the second nav head with the back up AI ?

Cheers,

JJ

[kwmoore]

Good set up, I think my panel is going to look a bit like yours with the Gizmo setup, very clean and cost effective. As a matter of personal taste, not very rational I am afraid, I would put the 496 below the twin 430 instead of on top for easier access to the radio and look.
Bevan's recommendation was similar to yours. Likewise for me it was a matter of personal taste and also habit: the MX20 in my 812KT was mounted betwen the audio panel and the 430, I liked it and I got used to it.

Regarding the left of the panel, maybe a swap the second nav head with the back up AI ?
I'll consider it. As of now, I wanted the backup AI as close to my normal scan as possible. I suppose we could also move the #2 NAV head down one space, move the backup AI over to the right, and then put the analog vacuum gauge in the backup AI's current space.

[joealbracht]

Kevin,

Great panel!

Did any of the stricter requirements now required for locating the new Garmin WAAS GPS units impact your proposed panel layout? (annunciators, etc)

Joe

[kwmoore]

Did any of the stricter requirements now required for locating the new Garmin WAAS GPS units impact your proposed panel layout? (annunciators, etc)
Joe, ya got me stumped there! :) Bevan didn't mention anything about this, so I assume there are no issues. What are the new requirements?

[joealbracht]

Kevin,

I'm not an expert on it but the link below seems as good a summary of the issues as I've seen (short of the actual Garmin install manuals):

http://www.pennavionics.com/WAAS_UPGRADE.html

Since this Penn Avionics summary paraphrases the manual, I won't add additional confusion by paraphrasing their summary in this reply. Just read their summary to get an indication of the issues. A key section in the summary is "Why do some upgrades require an annunciator light assembly to be installed?"

Also, I assume this is an new install in this plane for the Garmin GPS. If so, I believe you have to conform to the approved equipment lists in the new Garmin WAAS Install manuals or get field approval for the differences. I believe existing approved IFR GPS configurations are grandfathered and do not have to meet the approved equipment lists (except maybe for the auto-pilot).

I'm not an expert in any of this, I'm still using my non-WAAS 530. My experts are just now mulling over whether or not I can use my existing TCI altitude encoder (not on Garmin's approved list) or not when I upgrade to the new WAAS unit without losing any capabilities of the new unit.

[witrakw]

I read that the annunciator lites are required for right panel mounted gps's that are not sufficiently in the pilot's direct scan view.
center stack avionics are usually within FAA limits.

bill w.

[kwmoore]

I read that the annunciator lites are required for right panel mounted gps's that are not sufficiently in the pilot's direct scan view.
center stack avionics are usually within FAA limits.
I raised this issue with Bevan and it turns out that indeed we will have to locate the 496 BELOW the 430w's in the stack to satisfy both the horizontal and vertical proximity-to-the-primary-instruments-and-CDIs requirements. Looks like JJ's preferred layout will be the one I use--I don't want to shell out another $1500 or so just for an annunciator for 430w #2!

[Kent McIntyre]

You are correct for the most part, Bill. Garmin's STC has a specific distance requirement for the pilot's panel, indicators, and 430 or 530 display. If the equipment falls outside the parameter, an annunciator is required. Previous guidance from Garmin suggested a viewing angle and these were done with an FAA Field Approval, effectively approving anything as installed. The WAAS upgrade is, of course, an STC and must be followed to the letter or a Field Approval would be required for deviations. In Kevins current installation, the indicators are immediately to the left of the 430's and no external annunciation is required.

Kent
Bevan Rabell, Inc.

[Squeege]

Just went through the pictures. Kevin, it looks like this one is almost ready for paint! This conversion is moving right along.

Louise

[kwmoore]

Just went through the pictures. Kevin, it looks like this one is almost ready for paint! This conversion is moving right along.
Avionics are scheduled to be completed Wednesday 27 June. After that it's wingtip extensions, flap gap seals, paint, interior, GAMi's and BRS. A little more than two months remaining, I think. :o

[kwmoore]

Avionics are scheduled to be completed Wednesday 27 June.
And so they were. See photos here. (http://www.260sepilots.org/gallery/812PL?&page=3)
The stock Cessna engine instrument cluster (top of right panel) is having its dust cover replaced, whereupon it will fit snugly into place. When the weather breaks it will have a flight test(s) and then Todd will go over it with his critical eye prior to acceptance. :D

I like the way it looks. And on schedule too! :)

[Pete]

And so they were. See photos here. (http://www.260sepilots.org/gallery/812PL?&page=3)
The stock Cessna engine instrument cluster (top of right panel) is having its dust cover replaced, whereupon it will fit snugly into place. When the weather breaks it will have a flight test(s) and then Todd will go over it with his critical eye prior to acceptance. :D

I like the way it looks. And on schedule too! :)
I don't like the way it looks at all ... It doesn't have the 260SE decal installed yet. :)

[kwmoore]

I don't like the way it looks at all ... It doesn't have the 260SE decal installed yet. :)
That will be done before I take delivery from Todd, maybe while the interior is being installed, or maybe earlier. Likely the "260SE/STOL Katmai" and "bear print" logos will be over on the right where there's some empty real estate.

If you look just to the left of the airspeed indicator, you'll see a smaller version of the bear print. Now, it's possible that since my plane, like Norm's, will be the "City-Slicker-Pampered-Pavement-Queen" version of the Katmai with standard gear and speed kit wheelpants, this small logo is in fact a "poodle print," although I have not verified this. ;) ;)

[kwmoore]

The plane now has its wingtip extensions and flap gap seals; baggage extension and support hardware for BAS seatbelts have also been installed. Todd will deliver it to Cimarron for paint this week--looks like weather will cooperate!

In consultation with Senior Management as well as Todd & Jo I selected a novel variation on the Katmai signature paint scheme, we'll see how it turns out in 3-4 weeks! :)

After paint is done the BRS will go in, followed by interior, and if needed, GAMijectors. Todd estimated that it would be ready a week or so after Labor Day, perhaps earlier if paint finishes quickly.

[nworth]

The plane now ... flap gap seals.
Why the flap gap seals? Did you have them on the prior planes?

[kwmoore]

I did not have them on my prior planes. Todd recommended them as the next best thing to do, after the speed kit he installs, to try to capture an extra knot or 2 (or three?) of cruise speed. As they were "only" :rolleyes: $1100 installed, I figured the $1000/knot rule applied and I might come out on the plus side. Rich K. reaped substantial rewards on his T182T by installing both the extended wing and flap gap seals. We'll see...of course, YMMV depending on your individual airframe.

[morrisond]

Do the flap gap seals hurt low speed at all? I had heard that they wreck the flow over the flaps causing a loss of lift with flaps extended. Probably not an issue with the Canard though.

[kwmoore]

I asked him this specifically, and his answer was the Kansas Vernacular equivalent of, "horse puckey."

In the 1980s they put these on quite a few 260se's.

[kwmoore]

Todd took it up for a test flight today before sending it for paint. He reports that at

7500 feet
66 degrees F OAT (warm day!)
altimeter 29.96
Density altitude 9600 feet
22" mp (WOT)
2500 rpm
15.5 gph fuel flow (at or near best power ROP)

she delivered 134 KIAS. Leaning to 11.5 gph (~66% power, LOP) gave about 6 kt less, 128 KIAS. Using a TAS calculator available here, (http://www.paragonair.com/public/aircraft/calc_TAS.html) that works out to

134 KIAS --> 154-155 KTAS
128 KIAS --> 147-148 KTAS

Very similar to what Norm sees, IIRC.

New paint and somewhat cooler temps might increase this a few kt; OTOH the weight of the to-be-installed new interior and BRS might decrease it. We shall see...

The loss of only 6-7 kt when LOP is good news and suggests well-balanced factory injectors. 12 gph (70% power) could be used at 7500 feet and that might even get an extra 1-2 kt compared to 11.5 gph.

In any case, I'm very pleased by this news! 148 KTAS was what I got from 812KT when running ROP! If my new plane turns out to be a 145-148 KTAS performer running LOP, that's wonderful and better than I'd hoped.

The extended wing may indeed confer a 2-3 kt cruise benefit in addition to the 4-5 kt extra cushion at the low end. :D Can't think of a single downside unless you're wedded to a 40-foot hangar...

[morrisond]

Nice speeds, do you think you could see 165 knots with the IO-550 in that Airframe?

[kwmoore]

Nice speeds, do you think you could see 165 knots with the IO-550 in that Airframe?
Perhaps in a shallow descent. Referencing post #2 in this thread, (http://www.260sepilots.org/forums/showthread.php?t=451) the cube root rule would predict a ~155 kt 260se would become a 162-163 kt 300se after its "heart transplant."

[kwmoore]

At the AOPA Expo in 2002 I bought a really nice golf shirt with the Cirrus Design logo. Very comfortable and it has worn well...until just this week. Now the fabric at the top of the collar has frayed and parted, and I accidentally stained the front with Turtle Wax while waxing Senior Management's car.

Do ya 'spose there is some significance here? ;)

About 6 more long weeks to go!

[Pete]

At the AOPA Expo in 2002 I bought a really nice golf shirt with the Cirrus Design logo. Very comfortable and it has worn well...until just this week. Now the fabric at the top of the collar has frayed and parted, and I accidentally stained the front with Turtle Wax while waxing Senior Management's car.

Do ya 'spose there is some significance here? ;)

About 6 more long weeks to go!
Ancient Chinese proverb say: "Wax on Cirrus shirt, no bug on Katmai wing."

[kwmoore]

Photos are on p. 3 & 4 of the 812PL album (http://www.260sepilots.org/gallery/812PL?&page=3) in the photo gallery.

We did a new take on the Katmai paint scheme using the Sherwin Williams colors "Las Vegas Gold," "Coral," and "Chestnut Brown." From the photos, we're very pleased with the results. :) :) It will be a good match for the tan leather/brown carpet interior.

The plane is back at Bevan Rabell having a few things with the panel tidied up--a week or less, I hope--then it's BRS and interior installation. My work schedule is pretty tight until October so that's probably when I'll make the trip to EQA for delivery.

Todd did a "speed run" on the way back from the paint shop. He reported that at 6500 feet (I think) he saw a solid 150 kt at 65%, 154-155 at 75%, and 157 kt with everything firewalled! These speeds are KTAS, rich-of-peak of course. This was without the complete nosewheel fairing, but on the other hand the plane was light, with interior and BRS still to be installed. This is an easy 6 knots faster than my earlier 812KT. Still likely a knot or two shy of Glen's 2099X. Hard to predict exactly how the final product will perform, but if it gets 145+ KTAS running WOTLOP at altitude, I'll be thrilled.

This final month is going to be S-L-O-W! :o

[joejenie]

Nice Plane Kevin! I really like the colors. I'm doing something similar in Blue/Gray instead. I will be out at Bevan next Tuesday. I will take a look for sure. Let me know if you need anything. They are suppose to finish my avionics next week and Todd's getting ready to tear the plane apart. I'm looking at the end of the year and yes it is going really sloooooow!;) I sold my Scout a couple weeks ago (figured I better take the buyer when they come), and now I have nothing to goof around in. I even took my TBM site seeing the other day! Do you know how much fuel one of those burn at 3500 MSL at 60% power? Try 70 gph.:eek:

[kwmoore]

...I even took my TBM site seeing the other day! Do you know how much fuel one of those burn at 3500 MSL at 60% power? Try 70 gph.:eek:
11-13 gph LOP for my IO-470 sounds even better now! Please let me know how my plane is doing at Bevan. I hope it's done by the end of next week. Hope yours is all but done when you're there.

[n2099x]

It must be that Lax Vegas Gold that gives 99x the speed! Sounds like your new bird is going to be as fast as 99x. I have been very busy at work, my partner decided to retire in an instant. So I haven't had time to devote to finding more speed out of 99x. But my new partner Russ (my son for those that don't know him) is comming up to speed very nicely. So this winter could yield more speed for 99x, maybe keep up with those dam 550's lol.

Glen

[kwmoore]

From all I've heard, you might want to consider the wingtip extensions as one of your next "improvements." You'll get 150 lb added to MGTOW and that extra lift will give you a slightly smaller angle of attack and thus less parasite drag --> possibly an extra couple of knots. :)

I think my plane will be nearly but not quite as fast as yours.

[kwmoore]

It's now back to Todd's shop from avionics & panel touch-ups at Bevan. Only BRS and interior remain. Weather permitting I'll head out to EQA on October 24 or shortly thereafter to pick it up. This is gonna be a long three weeks! :rolleyes:

My father will join me for the trip back to the West Coast. He's historically been a nervous flier in small planes but having an airframe parachute lowers his tension level dramatically. I noticed this first when I took him for a ride in an SR22 4 years ago, what a complete difference in his attitude! :)

One of our first trips after it's here will be to Santa Monica to check in on Senior Management's daughter Wenjia who just started her senior year at UCLA. That should be about a 1:50 flight each way. From what I recall, I should be able to land at the Katmai's 45-50 kt final approach speed and turn left off Rwy 21 directly into the runup area...:cool:

A remaining task I've been avoiding here is scouting out maintenance shops. This was the one fly in the ointment in my previous ownership experiences and I'll admit to some apprehension. My previous favorite--APR Aviation at Monterey--has closed and consolidated their avionics and maintenance operations at Fresno. That's a bit far away. The best on-field choices at PAO appear to be Rossi Aviation and Advantage Aviation. Diamond Aviation at nearby SQL is a possibility, and I've heard several good things about Turbine Air at HWD across the bay. I may still periodically visit David at Willits for oil changes and lunch with Glen too. It doesn't hurt to have multiple eyes on the plane. :o

[joejenie]

That's great Kevin! I wish I had the same great news. My plane has been done for several days sitting at Bevan, but we can't fly anywhere. I'm having all kinds of problems with the FAA on re-registering the Canadian plane. The last problem with the paperwork is I signed the whereabouts statement with the title "manager" instead of "member". Of course they won't call you and tell you to refax it in 5 minutes so they can finish. They send you a letter slow boat and burn a week on each mistake. I wish they had a concise way of doing things without this trial and error BS.

Project is now 6 weeks behind at least. Todd was expecting it on September 1. I thought this stuff was being done, but I found out about 2 weeks ago that I was suppose to do it!:mad:

I can see why none of these planes are ever for sale. The pain in the ass of getting one will make me keep mine forever even if I don't want to fly it!:rolleyes:

[kwmoore]

...was today, in an SR22, an Angel Flight. I picked up a liver cancer patient and her grandson at Santa Maria (SMX) and delivered them to San Jose Reid Hillview (RHV).

This was a 2003 SR22, one of the early PFD planes. It has the 4-point engine mount and is noticeably "vibey." I've flown this plane many times before but today it was cranky. For some reason CHTs were 15-20 degrees warmer across the board than in the past. I had to keep mixture full rich through at least 3500 feet and flatten the climb to keep CHTs at or below 400 degrees. Even at 63-65% power lean of peak in cruise, they were in the 360-375 range. It was not an especially warm day either. Everything else--oil temp, oil pressure--was in the green. :rolleyes:

In addition the autopilot (STEC55X) felt compelled to sound its autopilot disconnect horn every time it ran the trim in altitude hold mode--really annoying. I ended up hand-flying the last half of the return flight because I was sick of the noise!

Finally, Skywatch was manic, bleating "traffic, traffic" even on the ground and in the pattern with no other planes nearby. :confused:

I like the SR22 but I certainly won't miss the frequent weird gremlins that I have experienced with the club's Cirri. These planes just seem a bit fragile in the rental environment.

Weather permitting, my Katmai should be parked in PAO space I25 three weeks from today! :D

[jjbely]

Kevin,

I don't think the Lexus with wing exists but the Cirrus is certainly far from it. My last three month experience has been worse than ever. parachute SB's , corrosion on flaps brackets, wrong parts sent by Cirrus .. result , plane grounded for the last three months and still waiting..

I sincerely hope our katmai will be worth the wait as far as reliability is concerned. I really don't mind trading 20 knots for it.

Cheers

JJ

[kwmoore]

At least my first two were very reliable; my fingers are crossed for the third.

Given that you are in a very warm and humid climate--like Norm in Florida!--I recommend you have Todd corrosion-proof the internal surfaces. Having that done and flying it frequently are the best insurance against corrosion.

What is your maintenance situation there? Except for the canard and associated hardware, everything on the 260se/Katmai is generic Cessna or TCM. If Cessnas are easy to maintain in Singapore, your plane should be too.

[jjbely]

Kevin,

For the time being there is no hangarage available here. The corrosion proofing is top on my list and will be done after the paint job. My maintenance facility is the local Hawker Beechcraft distributor. They are used to maintain Cessna singles but their rates are more King Air and Hawker style. We do pay for a lot of overheads. The problem with the Cirrus is that some specific jobs like the parachute SB's must be done by a Cirrus trained A/P, the closer being 5000 nm away in Australia. The last 2 hours " free" parachute SB ended costing me 3 grand.. That's also why I decided not to get the BRS. Then every time you order a part, it takes at least a week to be processed and shipped. That's why reliability is my main concern.

For avionics, I guess it would be good to use this electronic contact enhancer, Stabilant, I wonder if Bevan are using it. There seems to be a fair bit of issues with avionics here even on big corporate jets and they are caused by high moisture.

Cheers

JJ

[kwmoore]

The plane will be finished next week. The BRS is installed and the interior nearly done. GAMi's are the remaining item; it can take a couple of nozzle exchanges to get the "GAMi spread" down to 0.2-0.3 gph where I want it.

Weather permitting, I plan to head out to EQA on the 25th, do some shakedown flights over the weekend, have any avionics glitches tended to on Monday and depart for CA Monday or Tuesday. Tiedown space I25 at PAO will be its new home.

My father plans to fly out the day before we leave to ride along on the way back. I'm hoping to make it at least a 2-day trip with some sightseeing for him on the way home.

Hard to believe it's nearly ready! :) :)

[Tom J. Storli]

Hard to believe it's nearly ready! :) :)


Pretty exciting stuff, Kevin ! Keep us all up to date... and as a personal favor, please pass my warmest best regards from here in "Snowland" to Jo and Todd when you're back there.

Cheers,

Tom