Alternator angst

[kwmoore]

After 9 months of trouble-free ops, my plane has been a bit cranky since early August: the autopilot had to go back to STEC twice for repair (they got it right the 2nd time apparently), restricting me to VFR only because the TC went with it. Dang, it was just a month or so out of warranty, too.

In the midst of this, the avionics started having problems powering up, the GNS430w's would spontaneously turn off then reboot, most of the time in unison. Once the whole stack just refused to turn on! :( This was traced to some less-than-stellar wiring connections from the main bus to avionics bus: no lock washers had been used. As a result the avionics bus was delivering only 9-10 v instead of the proper 12-14 v and the units simply thought they were being turned off and then on again! Fortunately the fix was quick and "only" cost 0.5 AU. :rolleyes:

Now all of a sudden it's the alternator cutting in and out, seemingly at random. It's also weird that the loss of charging seems gradual, not sudden: the voltage spools down from ~14 to <12 then the EDM 700 starts flashing its warning and the stock Cessna gauge shows a discharge. No popped breaker; recycling the alt master had no effect.

The tech who looked at it last Monday commented that he couldn't reproduce the problem but the alternator belt was loose and the alternator was "moving" in its mount. He tightened both but commented that, "the alternator still moves a little." Sure enough about 1 flight hour later (today) the alternator cut out again, then came back on line as I was taxiing in from my unscheduled landing. When I started up again for the 10 minute hop back to home base it was and remained on line, I just love those intermittent problems! :(

Interestingly there is a recent thread on the CPA forums about similar situations with O-470 & IO-470: http://www.cessna.org/forums/showthreaded.php?Cat=0&Number=647603&page=0

I'll be printing it out for the next (different) A&P who looks at it; hope 2PL can get back to its former dependable self! :o

Anyone here deal with something similar?

[n2099x]

Kevin, I heard you on center last saturday doing an angel flight. I was trying to pick-up flight following and didn't want to irritate them by talking to you.

I'm sure who ever worked on your plane has checked the regulator. I have gone through 3 alternators in the last 2000 hours on 99x and the last one I put on was quite a while ago and it was an brand new after market. That so far has worked great. Knock on wood! If you think your going to be forced that direction I could dig up more information for you.

Glen

[JJbely]

Hello Kevin,

I have had problem as well with the electrical system as well on 03. Overvoltage light on from time to time and a persistent whine on the radio/intercom. We checked the grounding, changed the VR and added a capacitor on the alternator. The intermittent overvoltage light is gone but the whine is still there.

After checking on the CPA website, I found that there seem to be many issues with Kelly alternators in particular radio/intercom noise and early failures. Mine was reconditionned by them. I decided to take the risk and replace the alternator by a new one from plane power alternators for about $500. It's a PMA and seems to be built better.

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/eppages/lightweight_alternator.php

I should get it and have it installed this week and hope this will fix the noise for good. I share your pain with STEC, my a/p is still not working after 5 months of troubleshooting, return to Stec and missing parts story. I hope this will be fixed this week as well.

For what it's worth, the Cessna has still be easier to maintain than the Cirrus. Cessna parts are cheap and the electrical system is simple and well known. Try to deal with avidyne.. my display has been down for 3 weeks now and I have no idea when I will see my unit back.

JJ

[kwmoore]

So far 4 flight hours after the alternator repair ("Cleaned all contacts on voltage regulator and alternator and added an additional ground") with no misbehavior.

By next weekend I'll probably have mustered the courage for a long flight, down to Hemet to see my father, via a route over airports with MX facilities and car rentals available! :rolleyes:

Thankfully the autopilot and avionics bus seem to be fixed...

[kwmoore]

I decided to take the risk and replace the alternator by a new one from plane power alternators for about $500. It's a PMA and seems to be built better.

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/eppages/lightweight_alternator.php

I should get it and have it installed this week and hope this will fix the noise for good.
I hope this has turned out well for you. Thanks for the tip on an "alternate alternator."

Interesting that I seem to be considerably less patient now than in my previous aircraft ownership period (2000-2004) with mechanicals. While I understand that it's unrealistic to expect Honda-like reliability from TCM, Lycoming, STEC or even Garmin, it still really chaps my hide that components costing as much as a brand new car fail so often. Not enough competition in the aviation world, I guess. :(

Ah, but when it runs... :)

[JJbely]

I hope this has turned out well for you. Thanks for the tip on an "alternate alternator."

Interesting that I seem to be considerably less patient now than in my previous aircraft ownership period (2000-2004) with mechanicals. While I understand that it's unrealistic to expect Honda-like reliability from TCM, Lycoming, STEC or even Garmin, it still really chaps my hide that components costing as much as a brand new car fail so often. Not enough competition in the aviation world, I guess. :(

Ah, but when it runs... :)

Well my alternate alternator is not yet alternating :) , should be installed on Saturday if I can obtain a slot to fly to my maintenance facility despite a total 11 days military airspace closure for non scheduled a/c. They still have money to spend down here..

I am still maintaining 2 a/c as I haven't found a buyer for the Cirrus. I think I am not far behind you on the number of failures. During the last three months, I send the Cirrus HSI to Sandel in the US twice, now the MFD is with Avidyne for repair, 1 failed GPS antennas and now my 430 just gave me a Low battery warning... Avionics are the worst offenders, then electrical issues. Engine are not so bad.... but when they fail, oops.

Actually , the 182 has been quite OK except for some minor issues (failed brand new servo and EHSI lamp) and, when needed, the price of parts is always a lot lower.

If I check on my 6 years of aircraft ownership, I think I had more hours of paid maintenance than flying hours. And then, it's not a complex a/c, no retractable gear, no turbocharger, no pressurization.. I cannot imagine the fun of having to maintain a Malibu or a 210.

The sad thing is that often the differential in costing to get good reliability is not that much, a few dollars savings on some electrical connectors can ground a half million dollar airplane as seen on the Cirrus, it's now improved.

Well let's hope we see some improvements in the future with boxes like the Aspen or Garmin Glass units.

As you say, Ah, but when it runs... :)

[wdwitrak]

Mercifully, my mechanical travails have been relatively modest over the last several years. Recently, my regulator went belly up. My TCAS went haywire 6 mos ago after flying through some rain; one of the connections rusted from a H2O leak in the tail(still don't know where exactly, and have just taped a piece of plastic over the unit to prevent it from future wayward drips). CHT probe had to be replaced 12 mos ago. Gns 430w, gmx200, stec30,GDL nary a problem. With all of the high tech/mechanical wonders out there,one wonders why aeronautical systems aren't more reliable especially inview of their more critical "keep your a... out of the trees" necessity than driving a car.

Hope your troubles rapidly diminish.
'
bw

[kwmoore]

Flew a 6 hour round trip without a hitch, so I guess it's fixed! :)

On the outbound flight yesterday I deliberately flew through the edge of some moderate rain showers to give the plane a bath. About 15 minutes' worth really cleaned it off! Sitting on the ramp at PAO it accumulates dust which the dew cycle then cakes on, requiring either a thorough manual wash or...flight through rain to clean off.

Interestingly, neither my Nexrad nor ATC's radar was painting the rain. It was fairly localized, perhaps 20 x 30 miles, but near the center of the activity it would have been IMC for sure.

[n2099x]

I just ran across the link to the alternator that I put on 99x a few years ago. So far so good.

http://nationalairparts.com/CESSNA.html

[nworth]

I just lost my SECOND alternator.

My 260se has been completely trouble free through 600 hours of operation *except* for a failed Avidyne EX500 MFD ($2,000), a battery clamp ($12), a master solenoid ($60) and TWO (2!!!!) damn Kelly alternators ($800 each!!!).

The last time the alternator failed, I had the wife of a friend aboard and my son. Turned around to head back to home base just as approach advised the field had just gone IFR (and me with an electronic HSI!!!!).

Got down without too much drama but that was Enough.

I installed the Plane Power alternator. Not quite a "drop in" but close. It's clearly a better engineered part and appears to bring in max voltage at lower RPM and hold more consistent amperage in cruise. Very happy so far.

[kwmoore]

The shop where I did my most recent annual indicated that anything from Kelly Aerospace is likely to be trouble. I still have the rare, unpredictable occasion of my alternator going off line for no obvious reason. So far, recycling the master has done the trick. The shop said I could probably anticipate alternator failure within 100 hr, then it will be Plane Power, not Kelly Aerospace...:rolleyes:

[nworth]

Kelly alternators are just repurposed automobile alternators (usually original equipment on vehicles made in the 50's).

It doesn't appear they actually modify the things in any substantial way. All they have are the FAA certs.

[n2099x]

My alternator is still working great. As of this post anyway. It fits very tight in the bracket and none of the others did. That is one of the reasons I went with it.

[nworth]

My alternator is still working great. As of this post anyway. It fits very tight in the bracket and none of the others did. That is one of the reasons I went with it.
The Planepower alternator fits fine too but the "drop in" (for standard 182) had he wrong size belt and one of the engine mounting studs needed to have its outer cover cut back.