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  #1  
Old 07-07-2012, 08:33 AM
joejhartzell joejhartzell is offline
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Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Grandvaux, Switzerland
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Texas Skyways "Quasi Katmai"

This is my first post, so be gentle.

I have a 1980 182Q with a 280 HP Texas Skyways O520 (carbed) engine that Todd and Jo are currently putting a canard on and adding extended wings to. I don't currently have the means but buy a proper King Katmai dream machine (yet!). Rather than wait till I can afford one, I thought I'm better off getting experience on a "Quasi Katmai", my first plane purchase. I live in Switzerland and am 6'5". My flight club only has one plane I fit in and its rarely available.

Does anyone here have experience flying a non-fuel injected 182 with canard and extended wings? Any advice on what to do differently than in a "real" Katmai/ 260 SE? I've already braced myself for less fuel economy than I would get with in injected engine (100LL is running around US$10 per gallon in Switzerland these days). But I'm wondering what else I should keep in mind.

Thanks in advance for any advice you can provide.

Joe Hartzell
Soon to take possession of my "Quasi Katmai"
1980 182Q with Peterson Canard and Extended Wings
G500, STEC 30, 530W, GTS800, GMA350
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  #2  
Old 07-07-2012, 08:56 PM
joejenie joejenie is offline
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Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: St. George Utah
Posts: 161
No difference

Joe,

I have been flying a Katmai now for 18 months that has a Pponk engine which is a 275 HP carb engine. I previously owned a 300 HP Katmai as well. I did the Pponk this time to save 35k. I feel it is a very good value. You won't notice a bit of difference in real world flying. It climbs maybe 200 fpm less and the 300 HP fuel injected version will have more power at 8000 ft and above that would be noticeable. It might take another 50 ft of runway on takeoff as well. Carb plane is easier to hot start. Overall, it is a great trade off for money vs performance. The IO-550 is top of the line. If you have 350-400k to spend on building a King Katmai, I would say go with it. If you want to stay under 250-300k on the rebuild, go with a carb version.

I will tell you though that for resale, everyone wants to IO-550. I think Todd has done a wonderful job brainwashing people that it is the only way to go. I have tried to sell my plane for months and no one is interested because of the engine. If they flew it, they would think differently, but they won't even come try it out. So you have to remember that if it is an issue to you. Good luck.
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  #3  
Old 07-07-2012, 09:07 PM
Louise Scudieri Louise Scudieri is offline
230...now...275 SE
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: TX
Posts: 59
Joe,

Congratulations on your acquisition.

I *had* the 'budget bird of the bunch' until my annual this year, when I found my crankshaft spalled after pulling a cylinder with an exhaust valve leak. I opted for the Pponk (275hp) carbureted engine overhaul/upgrade. I do not have the extended tips, but I do have flap gap seals.

I would think a series of slow flight maneuvers at altitude, followed by a few circuits in the pattern would get you comfortable at the progressively slower speeds you can safely fly with the plane. I do keep carb temps between 40 to 46 degF, with throttle full forward for take off, then pulled back about 1/2 in for cruise. RPMs with my current set up are smoothest about 2460, just watch the canard until the vibration minimizes. For my cross countries (most of my flying) I am able to get a fuel flow of about 11.7gph, keeping cylinder temps well below 380 degF by utilizing "the big pull" of the mixture after stabilizing at cruise altitude.

Have fun!

Louise

Last edited by Louise Scudieri : 07-07-2012 at 09:12 PM.
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  #4  
Old 07-08-2012, 12:47 AM
joejhartzell joejhartzell is offline
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Thanks Joe and Louise,

I will admit that I too, am one of the many who want an IO 550 and plan to some day have Todd put one in (hopefully over 2,000 hours of flying from now if the TBO is to be believed). If I had access to another $150K, I would have ordered one from Todd outright, but that wasn't an option yet. I'm sure he would have done a better job finding a great airframe and, in the end, I would end up with a better plane for less money than the way I'm doing it today. But cash flow dictates that I go the "Frankenstein" route and put her together piece by piece. I just hope Todd and Jo don't plan on retiring any time soon. First of course, because they are really great people who provide a level of customer service and pride in their product that is hard to find anywhere these days. Second, for more selfish reasons, because I have a strange feeling that once they do retire, these birds will skyrocket in value and a lot of people will get locked out of the market.

I don't think my plane has a carb temp gauge. If not, should I have one put in? I do live in Switzerland after all (but I am from California, so I sometimes forget to respect the winters here as much as I should).

Are you guys able to fly lean of peak with your carbed engines? Under 12 GPH sounds very nice to me. I have been assuming 14GPH (aka ~$150 per hour in fuel at today's Swiss prices). I assume you are accomplishing this flying LOP? I was just at a Cessna Pilot's Association "Legacy" 182 systems seminar where they said its quite hard to fly LOP in many carbed O470 planes due to the larger spread in CHT temps and the rather bad induction system of the O470. Is this the same with the PPONK (which I assume is uses an O520 like my plane's Texas Skyways O520 correct?)

Thanks so much for your fast and informative replies. Its great to see that there is a community of great people on this forum who are such a great source of real world knowledge.

Joe
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  #5  
Old 07-08-2012, 12:37 PM
kwmoore kwmoore is offline
260se/stol-Katmai owner
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Posts: 1,136
Quote:
Originally Posted by joejhartzell View Post
This is my first post, so be gentle.

I have a 1980 182Q with a 280 HP Texas Skyways O520 (carbed) engine that Todd and Jo are currently putting a canard on and adding extended wings to. I don't currently have the means but buy a proper King Katmai dream machine (yet!). Rather than wait till I can afford one, I thought I'm better off getting experience on a "Quasi Katmai", my first plane purchase.
No "Quasi" about it, it will still be a Katmai with the same great low speed handling, short field landing performance and safety no matter what engine it has. Your 280 hp carbureted engine should be very similar in takeoff, climb and cruise performance to Louise's and Joe's planes. Enjoy!
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  #6  
Old 07-08-2012, 12:57 PM
joejhartzell joejhartzell is offline
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Thanks for the info Kevin. I'll actually be in SF third week of September for a conference. I lived in the Bay Area throughout the 1990s (in Menlo Park and Berkeley "Go Bears!"). If you are around SF or the Peninsula (your bird is in Palo Alto right?) then and are up for a $100 hamburger, I'm buying (and I'll gladly cover the cheap American gas too.)

I figure its a rare opportunity to meet a fellow "Katmainiac" before I pick up the plane. The only other one I've been lucky enough to find in Europe is Ian from the Isle of Man, whom I hope to visit in the coming months.

Enjoy the rest of your weekend,

Joe
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  #7  
Old 07-08-2012, 01:22 PM
kwmoore kwmoore is offline
260se/stol-Katmai owner
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Posts: 1,136
Quote:
Originally Posted by joejhartzell View Post
I'll actually be in SF third week of September for a conference. I lived in the Bay Area throughout the 1990s (in Menlo Park and Berkeley "Go Bears!"). If you are around SF or the Peninsula (your bird is in Palo Alto right?) ...
Yes, based at PAO. I'd be happy to have you along for a flight. My 260 hp plane won't have quite the sea level takeoff and climb performance of the 280 or 300 hp versions, but it's more like it gets off really short, vs. really really short. However I believe the 260 hp fuel injected engine gives about the same higher altitude and cruise performance as the carb'd 520. So, it will be a "near-Katmai" surrogate experience for you.

We might also snag Glen for a fly-out lunch--Santa Rosa? Petaluma? Or more adventurously, even Tahoe or Reno.
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Former 260se/stol Katmai with BRS owner; planeless for now
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  #8  
Old 07-09-2012, 03:03 PM
joejhartzell joejhartzell is offline
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Sounds like a plan Kevin! I'll send more info when the arrival date is closer.

Thanks,

Joe
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Joe Hartzell
1980 C182Q
Grandvaux, Switzerland
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  #9  
Old 07-14-2012, 10:42 PM
n2099x n2099x is offline
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Posts: 98
Sure Kevin, maybe Shelter Cove if it's clear.

Glen
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